BAKU, Azerbaijan, April 23. On April 23, ADAUniversity hosted the international forum themed “COP29 and GreenVision for Azerbaijan”, Trend reports.
President of the Republic of Azerbaijan Ilham Aliyev attendedthe forum and responded to questions from the eventparticipants.
Opening the forum, Rector of ADA University HafizPashayev said: Your Excellency, Mr. President IlhamAliyev.
Distinguished participants of the 6th ADA University PolicyForum.
It is a great honor to welcome you at our semiannual policyforum. This time, we have 64 participants from 30 countries. At thepersonal initiative and support President Ilham Aliyev we will begoing tomorrow to beautiful city Lachin liberated from the Armenianoccupation and is already witnessing the return of AzerbaijaniIDPs.
Since our last forum back in December 2023, Azerbaijan has beenunanimously supported as a next host of UN Climate ChangeConference. This is another sign of our strong diplomacy at aglobal scale and well recognized reputation of Azerbaijan as areliable partner for multilateral negotiations. Previously,Azerbaijan has successfully chaired other important organizationssuch as UN Security Council, Non-Aligned Movement, Organization ofTurkic States and many others.
Baku is the birthplace of the world oil industry. Now, it issymbolic that in coming November tens of thousands of delegates areexpected in Baku for COP29 Summit to discuss the future of ourplanet from climate change perspective.
ADA University is honored to be active academic partner ofOrganizing Committee in providing trainings, conferences andresearches with relevant international institutions. This forumwill contribute to the global policy discussions by adding theinput on regional security, the vision of Azerbaijan regarding theenergy transition and green growth, developments of greeneco-friendly zones in Karabakh, wind and solar projects ofAzerbaijan, future of green corridor into EU and many otherissues.
We’d also like to focus on the environmental impact of theArmenian occupation, including the massive landmine problem andpossible international legal tools to mitigate this damage.
Your Excellency, Mr. President, using this opportunity, pleaseallow me to congratulate you and our nation with diplomatic successin regards to return of villages in Gazakh region by peacefulmeans. We wish you all the best in tireless efforts to bringprosperity and development to our region. We thank you for yourtime with us at ADA University, especially knowing how busy yourschedule is. We hope that today's discussion and tomorrow's visitto Karabakh will further shed light on the regional developments.Undoubtedly, this will be of great assistance to our participatingexperts in their future analyses and materials to publish. Mr.President, the floor is yours.
President Ilham Aliyev: Dear guests, I am veryglad to see you all. Welcome to Azerbaijan, I wish you a pleasantstay in our country and fruitful discussions, as always. I amgrateful for being invited again to have an opportunity to talk toyou.
I regularly participate in the ADA’s forum. As it was alreadysaid, last time we met here in the beginning of last December. Somany things have happened since that time in Azerbaijan and around.I would say that all of these events develop in a positivedirection, whether it's the process of normalization betweenAzerbaijan and Armenia, border delimitation, or if we talk aboutCOP29. Of course, it's a sign of big respect and support toAzerbaijan from the international community. We are now in a veryactive phase of preparation. We had only less than one year. So, wemust be very active and efficient in order to have goodresults.
Of course, the COP29 is a big responsibility for us, not onlyfrom the point of view of all these organizational issues, but alsofrom the point of view of delivering results.
You will visit Lachin tomorrow. I see many familiar faces andalso I know that there are new participants. Participants of theforum have already been to Shusha, Aghdam, Zangilan, and nowLachin. I am sure you will enjoy your trip. Lachin is one of themost beautiful parts of Azerbaijan. When we talk about a greenfuture, you will see that Lachin is all green.
Of course, huge development is now underway. Seeing how werebuilt the Lachin city and already one village next to it, youwill actually see how Karabakh and Eastern Zangezur will look likeafter we complete the restoration work. Last May, I handed over thekeys to the first inhabitants of Lachin who returned there aftermore than 30 years. Now, every month, the new residents are coming.As we estimated, the percentage of former refugees who want to goback to their native lands is even higher than we anticipated. Eventhose who have never been there, I mean, the young generation orchildren, they enjoy being there. So it really demonstrates how theAzerbaijani people are connected to their roots.
Lachin was occupied ten days after Shusha in May 1992. That wasactually one of the most tragic parts of the First Karabakh Warbecause land connection between Armenia and the Karabakh districtof Azerbaijan was established as a result of that occupation. Thus,it allowed for a huge movement of weapons and military personnelfrom Armenia to our land.
The liberation of Lachin was also a demonstration of our strongpolitical will. The biggest part of Lachin was liberated bypolitical means. During the Second Karabakh War, we liberated thesouthern part of Lachin. And that was also a very importantmilitary victory. But, the biggest part, including the city, wasliberated by political means. So, when I say that the occupiedterritories were liberated by military and political means, Lachinis a good example of that.
Now we are moving on the political track. I'm sure that we canachieve all our goals through political means, as we have alreadydemonstrated.
So, I don't want to take much of your time with theseintroductory remarks. I think, it’s better if we leave more timefor discussions. So, once again, thank you for the invitation. Andthank you for being with us.
Assistant to the President of Azerbaijan HikmetHajiyev: Thank you, Mr. President. With your permission wecan start discussion and a Q&A session. I will invite for thefirst question. Mrs. Daria Isachenko, Associate, German Institutefor International and Security Affairs (SWP), Germany.
Daria Isachenko: Thank you very much for thisopportunity. My name is Daria Isachenko. I'm from the Center forApplied Turkish studies at the German Institute for InternationalSecurity Affairs. I wanted to ask your opinion about the Eurasianintegration over the last 2-3 years we've seen Azerbaijanparticipating in the summits and other events of the EurasianEconomic Union. Are you interested in Eurasian integration? Whatbenefits do you see for Baku? And can it be expected if Azerbaijanmight become a member. And if I may add another second question.This week you will be visiting Germany later. I was wondering whatkind of what expectations do you have about this visit and thankyou very much indeed for this opportunity. Thank you.
President Ilham Aliyev: It’s true that we havebeen invited to participate in some of the events of the EurasianEconomic Union at the level of President and at the level of PrimeMinister.
I participated once as a guest of honor. Actually, with all thecountries that are members of the Eurasian Union except Armenia,Azerbaijan has a very close partnership relationship. So, for us,this group of countries is not something very strange. So we knowthem very well. With respect to the plans, with respect to closercooperation, Azerbaijan's economy is actually a self-sufficienteconomy. It demonstrates sustainable growth even in the period ofcrisis. We have very low foreign debt, which is now even below 8%of our GDP, which really demonstrates that we are among the leadingcountries in that respect - sustainable economies, self-based onnatural resources, and diversified economies with good economicties. By the way, bilateral ties with members of the Eurasian Unionactually, are enough for us. So, if there are additional advantagesand we see practical advantages of further integration, of course,we will evaluate that. If we really assess the benefits andshortcomings of being more associated with the Eurasian Union, ofcourse, we will make the right decision.
According to the information which we have, there are certaineconomic disagreements emerging from time to time among the memberstates. As I said, except for Armenia, with all the rest of themembers of the Eurasian Union, we have very good relations,including economic ties. So, of course, we don't want to findourselves in a situation where we will have to fight or make steps,which will hurt some economic benefits of our parties. But again,all our steps, including those with respect to membership ininternational institutions, have always been based on pragmatism.The same I can say about our membership in the Non-AlignedMovement. We became a member of the Non-Aligned Movement somethingmore than 10 years ago. That was a deliberate and well-analyzedstep. After that, we became a chair and demonstrated our capabilityand also gained a lot of friends.
So far, we don't have such plans, but we cannot say that it willnot be the case for elaboration in the future. Everything willdepend on what additional economic benefits we may get from beingcloser. If we see it, yes, we will make a decision; if not, we aresatisfied with what we have now.
With respect to German-Azerbaijani relations, I would say thatin recent months we have seen more active interaction. I wasinvited to Germany and visited Germany last March, and met with thePresident, Chancellor. With the chancellor, we also met lastFebruary in Munich. And this time, I'm invited to participate inthe Petersberg conference as the President of the host country ofthe COP29. This is a traditional conference held in Germany, andusually, the President of the host country is invited.
At the same time, there'll be meetings with leaders of Germany.I think that we are now on the good track of our cooperation. Thereis a big mutual economic interest. Recently, I met with a big groupof representatives from the German business community and membersof the German Eastern Economic Committee. There are a lot of plansof cooperation, of investments, of getting access to contracts withgovernmental structures. Of course, the political foundation isalways important because in Germany, and of course in Azerbaijan,business always evaluates political risks. If the relations betweenthe countries are stable, then, of course, business is guided bythat. So, I would say that now we experience, maybe, one of themost active periods in our bilateral relations. We can assess itvery positively.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Matthew Bryza, Board Member,The Jamestown Foundation, United States.
Matthew Bryza: Thanks so much, Mr. Presidentfor the honor of being here with you. These are some of the mostinteresting conversations I've ever had. Just seeing how andlistening to how you respond to everything in detail, no notes. Andthank you, Ambassador Rector Pashayev, for a chance to be here.
What an amazing nine months since last September? We weretalking at lunch how Azerbaijan is taking quantum leaps inrecovering all your territory, rebuilding them with theseinnovative technologies into green energy zones, smartmunicipalities, COP29. Getting back to Gazakh villages. Russianpeacekeepers have left. It's unbelievable what has happened.
Organizing COP29 is obviously overwhelming. And it's whicheverybody has to spend most of their time on. But there's astrategic communications part I wanted to ask you about. What thestrategy is? To tell Azerbaijan’s story about all these factors Ijust mentioned not in a way that promotes Azerbaijan because thenpeople just think you're trying to manipulate the stage. But justtell the actual story because people are listening out there. Theywant Azerbaijan to succeed because they want COP29 to succeed. Sohow does the strategic communications plan look?
And I might add as a suggestion, maybe we can convene it, aregional greater Caspian group of NGOs and companies or like-mindedpeople to focus on how this whole COP29 chairmanship for Azerbaijancame out of the peace process. And you were sitting there, tellingus last December that Pashinyan and just lifted his veto. It's areally great story, but it's not going to be told unless there'ssome mechanism. Maybe to come up with a declaration at COP29 thatleads to an ongoing working group year after year. Thank you.
President Ilham Aliyev: Thank you very much. Ofcourse, we will evaluate these suggestions. And really, we wantCOP29 to be successful from the point of view of tackling theissues of climate change. At the same time, it's an opportunity totell our story. And you are absolutely right that we have a lot ofthings to tell to the world and to tell the truth. I think one ofthe advantages of being a host country is that we will receive tensof thousands of people. Most of them will visit us for the firsttime. And they will have an opportunity for a maximum of two weeksor less to assess the situation themselves, how they feel here,what the country looks like, and what our plans are.
As you said in your comments, so many events have happened sincewe last met, and all of them in a positive direction. We didn'thave any setbacks, didn't have any crisis. On the contrary, we arejust building success after success. And everybody, at least inAzerbaijan and in the region, understands that it is not just bychance. All is based on thoughtful policy, on strategy, on propertactics, on many other elements of our policy and diplomacy.
You're absolutely right, COP29 was the result of a peaceprocess. Actually, though the main topic will be finance this time,as a host country, we can add additional agenda, and one of them —there will be several but — one of them will be peace. First,because it was a peace process that allowed us to become the hostcountry as Armenia lifted the veto. We also took steps towardsthem. Actually, it is just more than COP and just more than whathappened last December because it created more confidence betweenus. One of the biggest challenges is the lack of confidence, mutualor very low level of confidence.
This case demonstrates that we can at least not act against eachother every time and at every stage. So, that was the first timewhen we did not act against each other on the international arena.On the contrary, well, we did not support each other, but we wereneutral. I think, this is a success.
What we see now on border delimitation, I think, is one of theresults of that step when we demonstrated that. A lot is to bedone, of course, in order to build more confidence between the twocountries and especially between the peoples. But what important isa tendency and which paths we are passing. I think the illustrationof what I'm saying is really remarkable. Because COP29 inAzerbaijan is a result of the resolution of the conflict andprogress on a peace track.
I think that in order to put your ideas on a more practicalscale, it will be good if you can share more with us how you seethese events being integrated with your activity. There will be alot of side events during COP. Main international organizationswill hold their events, even summits. Maybe you can also think ofother forums at that time.
Usually, you convene in December, so you can reschedule a littlebit. First of all, I'd like to invite you, if you have time, tovisit us - we'll be happy - and also to think what else we cando.
Because now the Caucasus is one of the regions on the globalscale where events develop rapidly. In order to direct them in theright direction, we need to be proactive. We cannot just sit andwait. If we do, we will lose. It’s not a time that you canrelax.
I was saying that right after the Second Karabakh War that wehad no time to celebrate, and we didn't celebrate. We worked and wecontinue to do it because a lot needs to be done.
I think that this agenda will lead to strengthening of securitymeasures in the Caucasus, I mean, in the Southern Caucasus ingeneral, and will create opportunities for at least consultationsamong three Southern Caucasian countries, which lead the way tofuture cooperation. I think it's a unique chance now. We've beendeprived of that since the collapse of the Soviet Union, unlike theBaltic States, which started their independent journey in apeaceful environment while we had wars. So now, it's a chance toturn that page, and we're doing it, and I think COP29 is anexcellent example.
What we are now seeing on the border between Armenia andAzerbaijan, and not you do not see what is behind the scenes. Imean the context between representatives of the two countries.Discussions are more open, more constructive. With respect to theborder delimitation, Azerbaijan and Armenia behave in a veryconstructive way. What is seen is only a part. It is a result, butthis result is based on regular contacts and positive dynamics. So,we need to consolidate on that and move forward.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Nigar Göksel, Türkiye andCyprus Director, International Crisis Group, Türkiye.
Nigar Göksel: Thank you, Mr. President. Icongratulate you for hosting of the UN Climate Summit. I am veryexcited about that. Actually, you somewhat answered what I wasgoing to ask, which was, at what stage do you expect theArmenia-Azerbaijan peace track to be at the time of the summit? Andhow do you expect that hosting the summit might contribute both toArmenia-Azerbaijan dialogue but also to a wider regionalcooperation?
President Ilham Aliyev: I think that takinginto account what we have already discussed, there are good chancesfor having a serious progress on the peace track. Just going alittle bit back, I want to say once again that it was Azerbaijan,the country which initiated the peace process. Because when theSecond Karabakh War ended, there was a certain vacuum in the regionand also beyond, and actually, nobody knew what is next. So, thewar stopped. It was not yet the solution. And what is next?
So, we decided to launch this initiative and start negotiations,publicly announcing that. At the first stage, there was no responsefrom the Armenian side. We can understand it. Because the resultsof the war were not very easy for them. Then, we made another step.We elaborated the basic principles for a peace agreement, thosefamous five basic principles, which we made public.
Actually, negotiation started based on those principles. Armeniaadded some different topics. That was actually the main obstaclebecause they wanted to integrate into the peace agreement betweentwo sovereign countries, issues related to the so-calledNagorno-Karabakh, which was absolutely unacceptable for us becauseso-called Nagorno-Karabakh was and is the Karabakh region, aninternal issue of Azerbaijan. And that was the main reason why wedid not achieve progress. Because all the time they insisted onthat paragraph, which was absolutely unacceptable for us. So, wesaw that there was no way to come to an agreement.
It lasted until last September after we fully restored oursovereignty. But, there was another problem because after that theArmenian side took a break, and for at least two months did notrespond to our comments because we have this practice of exchangingcomments. Both foreign ministers do it regularly. I think, it’salready eight or seven times that we have exchanged comments on thedraft agreement.
Negotiations resumed only relatively recently. My meeting withthe Armenian Prime Minister took place two months ago only. Afterthat, the ministers met, and we are grateful to Germany, toChancellor Scholz for making this proposal and to Minister Baerbockfor hosting the meeting of the two foreign ministers of Armenia andAzerbaijan. So, I would say that we are only now approaching thereal substantive negotiations because after the full restoration ofour sovereignty and territorial integrity, Armenia lifted thatparagraph. So, they do not insist, obviously, any longer on anymentioning of so-called Karabakh in any aspect. So, actually, thiseliminates the most important obstacle. The rest of the paragraphs,I think, can be agreed, because there is nothing new, nothing,which we invented. All the principles are based on internationallaw norms and a pragmatic approach.
We've been approached by Kazakhstan with a proposal to have ameeting between the foreign ministers of Azerbaijan and Armenia inKazakhstan, and we agreed to that. If Armenia also agrees, the nextmeeting of the foreign ministers of both countries will take placethere. I also want to make it clear, we are not talking about anykind of mediation. Because what happens now on our borderdemonstrates that when we are left alone, nobody wants to use thesituation for their political ambitions, we can agree sooner thanlater.
So, it is only the platform, only the premises, which we aretalking about. And we are grateful also to the government ofKazakhstan for such a proposal. So I think now, we need to wait forthe Armenian side to respond. But again, coming back to thesubstance of what is being discussed, I think that we are close andmaybe closer than ever before. Because we've never been closeduring the times of occupation. We could not agree on basicprinciples at that time. Those famous Madrid principles, we couldnot even agree on that. We did not even have a draft of a peaceagreement at that time. But now we have it. Now, we have a commonunderstanding of how the peace agreement should look like. We onlyneed to address the details, but of course, both sides need time.Because if signed, it will be a historical agreement for bothcountries. Therefore, every word, every full stop, every paragraphis important, but what’s important is that we both have thepolitical will to do it.
Hikmet Hajiyev: James Sharp, Former BritishAmbassador to Azerbaijan, United Kingdom.
James Sharp: As you know, we hosted COP26 inGlasgow, three years ago now. And from our perspective, of course,being chairman gives you both opportunities and responsibilities.The key responsibility of the chairman will be to negotiate theconsensus agreements on a whole range of issues that the countriesneed to decide upon to tackle climate change. But also, in thisresponsibility, we felt anyway, that we had to show the leadershipin taking measures to show the rest of the world that we were doingwhat we wanted everyone else to do. We were going beyond what we'reasking everybody else to do. So, at that time, of course, we werelobbying you and Mukhtar Babayev that Azerbaijan should becommitted to net zero by 2050, of course, and you weren't able tomeet that commitment at that time, but hopefully, as chairman youwill be able to commit to that. But in terms of opportunity, Imean, we've partially covered this already, but it's an opportunityto shine the spotlight on the region on the Caucasus, the Caspian,the Central Asian region, and the problems environmental problemsthat these regions face as a result of climate change, such as theshrinkage of the Caspian Sea, which we see, increasingdesertification and of course, some of the trans boundary riverdisputes that we see in Central Asia and in the Caucasus. So I wasjust, I'd be more interested in some of your… if you have ideasabout how you might specifically want to address thoseenvironmental issues, the regional environmental issues. Thankyou.
President Ilham Aliyev: Thank you. Even beforewe were awarded with COP29, we were seriously addressingenvironmental issues and trying to reduce the negative impact ofclimate change. As you correctly mentioned, everybody can see here,especially in summer when people go to the beaches, that the seagoes away year after year, which has never been like this before.There were periods when the sea came and went, but that was aprocess, but now the sea only goes, and this is a serious problemfor environment and also for trade. We have to dig more canals inorder to accommodate vessels. If the shrinking of the Caspian Seacontinues like that, so we will face not only environmental issuesbut also serious connectivity issues. Because one of the importantprojects now being implemented, the Middle Corridor, passes throughthe Caspian Sea. So, it's a variety of issues. We are doing a loton environmental protection here. You lived here for several years,so you know our agenda on that. We are doing a lot to clean theAbsheron peninsula, and one of the prominent examples is the WhiteCity project, formerly known as the Black City. I don't know if allof you have been there, but if not, I would recommend visiting.We’ve built a city inside the city on the territory, which wascompletely polluted for decades, a part of Baku, which when wepassed it by car, we always closed the windows because of thesmell. Now it is a demonstration of green city planning anddelivery. And another example is Bibiheybat bay, which was featuredin a James Bond movie. If you watch that movie, you will see how itlooked. But now it's one of the greenest parts of Baku. So, thereare many examples like that. Now, we are also actively working onthe water resources in Karabakh and Eastern Zangezur. We weredeprived of them during the times of occupation. The main rivers,which have their source in Azerbaijan, are situated exactly there.During the times of occupation, Armenians were just closing thedams and depriving us of water in the season when we needed it, andopening in winter. So, hundreds of thousands of hectares ofAzerbaijani land, which were supposed to be irrigated by water fromEastern Zangezur and Karabakh were not irrigated. So, now we areback. We are now controlling our water resources. We are planningto build several big water storages and the water canals, not onlyin that part but also in the central part of Azerbaijan. Our planshave already been announced, and really, it will allow us to saveevery drop of water, which now is just lost. In our old canals, wehave a loss of about 30%, but with modernization and newtechnologies, the loss of water will be not more than 5%. Withrespect to transboundary rivers, this is the biggest concernbecause we cannot control that situation. There are objective andsubjective reasons.
The objective reason, of course, is climate change. Objectively,there is less water in the rivers, but at the same time, we knowthat there are hydro-technical infrastructure projects on thoserivers, which lead to their shallowing. The same we see, forinstance, in the Volga River. Because the Volga River is a mainsource for the Caspian Sea. Now, when there is less water in theVolga River, obviously, the shrinkage of the Caspian Sea is notbecause of climate change. It's also because the Volga is notfeeding the sea properly as it should be. So, of course, it is anissue of multilateral cooperation. With our neighbors, we areactively addressing these issues. Because if we don't takecoordinated measures and proper steps, we will all suffer. Talkingabout in general with respect to results, we are committed toworking actively with all the members. We have, I think, goodopportunities for that.
Chairing the Non-Aligned Movement for four years has gainedAzerbaijan a lot of friends who trust us. The countries of theGlobal South, of which Azerbaijan is a part of, today need specialattention. Of course, one of the issues of disagreement withrespect to climate issues is the responsibility of developed,developing, and underdeveloped countries, and this sharedresponsibility must be fair. Of course, negative contribution toclimate problems must also be openly addressed. So, we think thatwith these good connections with many European countries, we canplay a role as a coordinator or bridge. At the same time, being acountry rich in oil and gas allows us to have more interaction withoil and gas-producing countries and to create a platform forresponsibility for countries rich in oil and gas. Because thesecountries, including Azerbaijan, must take serious steps. We havealready demonstrated this in the platform, which is called OPEC+,where coordinated reduction of production led to the stabilizationof oil prices. We need to make coordinated efforts on the financialcontribution of those countries, which produce oil and gas, andthis will be absolutely objective. And we also are ready to do it.And another issue, which was a kind of innovation for COP29, isthat we initiated and already established the Troika mechanism. Itwas Azerbaijan's initiative to have this format with COP28 UAE andCOP30 Brazil. So, we have already had meetings of ministers, andthat will help us plan. Because by November 2024, COP29 Baku willbe finished, but the process should continue. We are now using thegreat experience of the UAE in preparation and delivery. So, beingtogether in this Troika really creates synergy, coordination, andpredictability.
We have other plans with respect to ideas, but it's probably alittle bit premature to disclose them. But we treat ourchairmanship not only as an opportunity to present our country,though that’s important but as an opportunity to contribute reallyto the practical resolution of the most urgent issues on globalarena. I'm very glad to see you, Mr. Ambassador. Welcome back.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Alexandre Hedjazi, Director,Global Environmental Policy Program, University of Geneva,Switzerland.
Alexandre Hedjazi: Thank you very much. Mr.President, allow me to congratulate again as my colleagues, thepresidency of COP29. From our position in Switzerland, we see a lotof interest in Azerbaijan. You're in the center of Eurasiasurrounded by big sizable neighbors. And we see with a lot ofinterest how Azerbaijan has fulfilled its promise of coming up withits own - we're talking earlier with the youth here – Azerbaijaniway and when it comes to bringing two success stories ofAzerbaijan. One being one of the big players on Global Energyscene, and its new role as one of the prominent players onenvironmental scene, I wanted to ask for your insights on how youwould like, how you foresee that massive investment that you'vedone within the last few years in the deployment of strategicinfrastructure. I’m thinking for example of Port Baku in bringingthese two elements that somehow could be contradictory - energy,trade and energy development and environmental stewardship. How doyou foresee the use of these infrastructures that you've investedfor your country to leave a legacy for Azerbaijan and Azerbaijanpeople and the region? Thank you.
President Ilham Aliyev: First of all, I'd liketo say that all petroleum operations conducted in Azerbaijan since1994 adhere to the standards of international environmentalprotection.
Our main investors are leading energy companies of the world. Ofcourse, everybody knows that their attention to environment is areally good example. We witnessed it not only during activities onoffshore rigs but also during the construction of major oil and gaspipelines, where special care was taken for birds, turtles, andother species, as well as archaeological excavations. There havebeen cases where they had to divert because of importantarchaeological findings. So, this is one thing. Another thing isthat before independence, during the Soviet time, and during thetimes of Tsarist Russia, our energy resources were exploitedwithout any concern for the environment. And that was how Baku wasone of the most polluted cities of the world. We had oil leaks, wehad oil spills, we had to spend hundreds of millions, and evenbillions of US dollars in order to clean that terrible legacy,which was an ecological catastrophe. What you see now in Baku, orcannot even imagine how it looked 10-20 years ago, because we madea lot of re-cultivation, a lot of cleanings, and a lot ofecologically friendly initiatives. Now as a COP29 chairman, thelevel of our responsibility, of course, is growing. First, becausewe treat this chairmanship with a very serious approach, andsecond, because we are in the spotlight. Immediately after we gotthe chairmanship, we've been attacked by different NGOs and mediathat, once again, an oil-producing country is chairing COP. So, itwas as if having oil was our fault. And my message was, it is notour fault that we have oil. Look at how we use these resources.First of all, look how we use it for country development, povertyreduction, and fair distribution of wealth, as well as forinfrastructure and green energy. Today, with stable oil and gasproduction, and even growing gas production, we are developinggreen energy projects. One important issue here is the restrictionsimposed in Europe with respect to fossil fuels. We see a kind ofcontradiction here. We have already raised this issue in front ofour European partners. On one hand, the European Union wants moregas from Azerbaijan. For this purpose, almost two years ago, the EUand Azerbaijan signed a Declaration on a strategic partnership inthe energy field. Based on that, our gas supply to Europe shouldincrease from 8 bcm in 2021 to 20 bcm by 2027. This is not anobligation, it is a target that we are moving towards. This year,our gas supply to Europe will be around 12 billion cubic meters,which is four billion more than in 2021. So, we have to investmore. We have to produce more. But there are restrictions onfinancial institutions financing fossil fuel projects. Forinstance, the European Investment Bank has completely took it outof their portfolio. The EBRD has a small portion for fossil fuelprojects. So, how does Europe want to get more gas from Azerbaijan?When, first, they do not provide financing. Because for projectslike those we have implemented, whether they are oil or gaspipelines, about 30% of the financing comes from corporations. Therest is lent money. So, this is the first question.
And second question is, they want us to produce and supply more,and they do, by the way. There are projects related tointerconnectors construction in Europe. But at the same time, theydo not give us a guarantee that our gas will be needed for a longtime. So, we cannot invest billions only for 5-10 years and thennot be able to recover the costs. The Southern Gas Corridor andinvestments in the Shah Deniz Stage 2 project have not yet reachedthe zero balance today. We are still repaying debts; whatever weget from gas sales, we have to cover the debts. So, these are thetwo most important issues we need to address with respect toEU-Azerbaijan gas cooperation.
As for the incorporation of green energy and fossil fuels, Ithink that the world will need fossil fuels for many more years. Itwould be, I think, naive to think that one day just it will stop.So, the world is not ready for that. The world’s economy is notready for that, and industry is not ready for that. So, I think thebest way will be to create synergy and to have an evolutionary wayrather than to put a target, which cannot be reached. In our case,we have already started making active investments with ourinvestors in green energy projects. Last October, we inauguratedthe first 240-megawatt solar power plant, and this year, we willsee the groundbreaking ceremony for four more solar and wind powerplants with a total capacity of 1,300 megawatts. So, that will makeour potential 1.5 or even more. But this is only the beginningbecause we have an enormous potential of wind, offshore andonshore, as well as solar energy, plus we add hydro. Only inKarabakh and Eastern Zangezur, the capacity of the hydropowerstations has reached close to 170 megawatts in the last threeyears, and this is only the beginning. Thus, we will substitute alarge portion of the gas we use to produce electricity withrenewable sources, and this is absolutely realistic. What I'msaying is not our plans; we have already signed contracts. Already,the land has not only been selected but also commissioned forconstruction. So, probably in several months, maybe a maximum ofthree or four, we'll see all of what I'm saying.
If we bring renewable production in Azerbaijan up to fivegigawatts, we can substitute a large portion of the natural gas,which we use for electricity. We can reach our target, which hasbeen articulated with the percentage of renewables, in an evenshorter period of time. And of course, the synergy here is that thegas we save by not using it in power stations can be sent toEurope, which needs it and will continue to need it. But not onlyEurope will need that, Europe will need additional green energysources. Because even taking into account the huge investmentsEuropean countries are making, they still will be in shortage. So,they will need additional energy, and we are working on that. Asyou know, the green energy cable from Caspian to the Black Sea andthen further down to Europe is now in the last phase of feasibilitystudy. As soon as the feasibility study is ready, we will start,and we are already discussing on a practical track theopportunities of connecting this cable with Central Asia. Actually,what we are talking now is that we're expanding that project.Because, it started as a Black Sea cable from the Georgian BlackSea to the Romanian Black Sea coast. We expanded it to the CaspianSea, and now we're expanding it further down to the EasternCaspian, to Kazakhstan.
Taking into account the investment projects in Kazakhstan andUzbekistan with renewables, there will be not energy deficit, butenergy proficit in a relatively short period of time. The way ofexporting will be again through Azerbaijan and further down toEurope. All these issues are closely connected with geopolitics andregional cooperation. Azerbaijan has always separated energyprojects from politics, but at the same time integrated them onlyin a positive meaning. All our energy projects lead to cooperation.Today, if we look at the countries surrounded by the Southern GasCorridor, we see that some of these countries do not have easyrelations. But these projects unite. It's a shared interest. It isa win-win situation. And energy actually leads to peace. Inhistory, we know that oil has led to war and bloodshed. Now, we arechanging the paradigm. And so far, we've been successful.
It has been 30 years since Azerbaijan started its oilcooperation with international companies, being the first countryto invite foreign oil companies to the Caspian Sea. I think, wehave a brighter future by not abandoning fossil fuels. We will notdo it, but at the same time, we will concentrate on the greenagenda. Once again, thank you for raising this issue, and it wouldbe good if we can elaborate on that more. Maybe closer to COP, wehave more ideas about what we have just exchanged, making it alsopart of our agenda at the conference.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Xiaoyun Qiang, Director, Centerfor Russian and Central Asian Studies, Shanghai Institutes forInternational Studies (SIIS), China.
Xiaoyun Qiang: Thank you, Mr. President. Myquestion about a bilateral relationship between China andAzerbaijan. As we know, Azerbaijan plays a unique and veryimportant role as a bridge between the South and the North. Eastand the West. So, how do you say the prospects of cooperationbetween China and Azerbaijan in the development of thetrans-Caspian international transport corridors? Thank you somuch.
President Ilham Aliyev: Thank you. Ourrelations are developing very successfully based on mutual respect,mutual support, and recognition of each other’s territorialintegrity. Azerbaijan was among the first countries to express itsopinion with respect to the elections in Taiwan. We did not onlyexpress concern but also denounced it. So, our policy with respectto One China is very well-known to our Chinese partners, and Chinahas always supported Azerbaijan's territorial integrity. So, thiswas a kind of a basis for our cooperation, but now, our cooperationis expanding in political and economic areas, as well as intransportation. I have met with President Xi Jinping many times andhave had very good impressions from our meetings. And actually,these meetings gave additional impetus to our relations. We now seemore Chinese companies as investors in Azerbaijan in the industrialsector, which we highly appreciate. Our political contacts areregular, and there is an exchange of high-level delegations. Ofcourse, as you mentioned, the transportation part is also becomingmore and more important. The Trans-Caspian Transport Route isneeded today more than ever before. We see the growing volume ofcargo going from China through Azerbaijan year after year. By theway, during the state visit of the President of Kazakhstan lastmonth, we had a ceremony of joint welcoming the container trainfrom Xi’an, which arrived in Baku. This was our joint demonstrationof cooperation between our countries. Of course, Kazakhstan andChina have much more active cooperation, but Azerbaijan and Chinaare also developing their cooperation in a very promising andfruitful way.
I firmly believe in the great future of the Middle Corridorproject here in Azerbaijan. We have constructed all the necessaryinfrastructure, including a modern new sea port. By the way, now weare working on expanding the sea port because today's handlingcapacity of 100,000 TEUs and a total of 15 million tonnes will notbe enough. We'll learn how to understand it. We want to bring it to25 million tonnes and 500,000 or even 1 million TEUs in order to beable to accommodate the growing volume of cargo not only from Chinabut also from Central Asia. Because in today's geopoliticalenvironment, this route, as I said, is needed. We also takeadditional steps with respect to institutional support becausephysical infrastructure is not enough. So, we have already createda joint venture between Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, and Georgia. We arenow working actively on the digitalization of the transportationroute. We are applying artificial intelligence systems in ourcustoms administration. So, that the handling of cargoes will takeless time, and transparency and control over cargoes are absolute.So, this is what we're doing now, apart from building railroads,seaports, etc.
You also mentioned the North-South Transport Corridor, which isno less important for Azerbaijan. It's really a geographical gift,I would say, that we are situated on this juncture as both roadscross our territory. With respect to North-South, we already haverailroad infrastructure, which connects us with Russian and Iranianborder. And soon, we will start to build new railroadinfrastructure because we expect at least 15 million tons of cargocoming only from Russia to the Persian Gulf. And if we add cargoesfrom opposite direction, so, I think, 15 million is only thebeginning. Today, our North-South railroad, the Azerbaijani segmentcan handle six seven million tons of cargo, which is enough for usand for transitors, but for the future, we will need additionalrailroads. So, we already are working on accumulation of financing.And not later than next year, we will start practical constructionof that. Actually, a part from Russian border to Baku is beingrenovated already but now we need from Baku to the Iranian border.And last point on that, these roads will not be separate, becauseit will allow cargoes to go from South to West or from North toWest, which is already happening now, using existinginfrastructure. But with the new infrastructure, the volume will bebigger and of course that will increase geopolitical importance ofAzerbaijan and definitely will bring additional financial benefitsto us.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Yoko Hirose, Professor, KeioUniversity, Japan.
Yoko Hirose: Mr. President, thank you so muchfor this great opportunity. I am Yoko Hirose, professorspecializing in Azerbaijan and former USSR region. Recently, Iwrote an article for the Azerbaijani Ministry of Foreign Affairs,magazine of world diplomacy about how you and your father hadimplemented great policy for IDPs. I sincerely respect youraccomplishment and I am very honored to have this opportunitytoday.
Now Azerbaijan and Turkiye are increasing its internationalinfluence. I believe that Zangezur corridor will become ever moreimportant as Azerbaijan increases its international and regionalinfluence. As it seems Armenia and Iran are against the Zangezurcorridor I understand that it. What kind of policy does Azerbaijanhave regarding the Zangezur corridor? In addition, Russia recentlywithdrew from peacekeeping operation in Karabakh but according to2020 peace agreement Russian forces were supposed to maintain peaceafter Zangezur corridor opened. What will happen in this regard?Furthermore, what will happen to the relationship betweenAzerbaijan and Russia and the future centering on the Karabakhissue. Thank you so much.
President Ilham Aliyev: Thank you. Severalquestions you asked, I will try to answer all of them. On theZangezur corridor, as you mentioned, the trilateral statementsigned on November 10th, 2020, clearly reflected this. Yes, theword “Zangezur corridor” was not mentioned, but it was said thatthere must be a connection. A transportation connection between theeastern part of Azerbaijan and the Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic,with Russian border security forces provide control, must beestablished. So, that was signed by President Putin, Prime MinisterPashinyan, and myself. So now, Armenia has been violating thisprovision for more than three years. And again, they signed itthemselves, and now they want to get rid of that paragraph, but itis not possible. And what they do is just block the possibility ofbuilding this land connection with the Nakhchivan AutonomousRepublic. This behavior, of course, is very disappointing. How thetrilateral Statement was signed is a different story. What were thecirc*mstances? Also, everybody knows that there was a signature bythe Armenian Prime Minister, and it must be respected. So, seeingthat the process got stuck, we actually had to find another option.And we found it. We started consultations with the Iranian side andagreed to make a bypass through Iranian territory, actually on thesouthern part of the Araz River. We only need two bridges fortransportation, and maybe two additional bridges for railroad, andby the way, the construction of the automotive bridges has started.There was even a ground-breaking ceremony with the participation ofhigh-ranking officials from Azerbaijan and Iran. What will be inthe end? Armenia will lose. They want to become a crossroads, yeah,they call it the crossroads of peace. But in order to become acrossroads of peace, first, they have to agree with us. Because ifAzerbaijan does not agree to that, it will be just a piece of paperor a statement. Without an agreement with us, it is absolutelyuseless. Unfortunately, they try to discuss it with differentcountries situated far, far away from the region. But when it comesto the point, they don't want to discuss it with us. Our positionis very clear. The trilateral Statement must be respected.
Land access from mainland Azerbaijan to the NakhchivanAutonomous Republic through Armenia must be provided withinternational control and security mechanism. If they don't wantnow due to some reasons, that it should be Russian border security,they should say it. But again, it is something they signedthemselves, and they must respect their signature. So, it's clearthat they will lose the opportunity to become a transit country.They've never been a transit country as independent country. Imean, they will never become because all these speculations aboutthe so-called “peace crossroads” are absolutely unrealistic withoutAzerbaijan. If they think that someone will come and build arailroad from Iran to Armenia and Georgia, they need to findsomeone who will spend maybe five to seven billion US dollars fornobody knows which reason while there is a land connection betweenIran and Azerbaijan and the North-South Transport Corridor is beingbuilt, and there is a real connection between Azerbaijan andGeorgia. So anyway, it is up to them how to plan their future.
But with respect to our plans, as I said, construction hasstarted. Next year, we plan to complete the construction of therailroad, which was dismantled by Armenians during the times ofoccupation. From Fuzuli to Zangilan, it's almost done. And afterthat, along with highway bridge, we plan to build a railroad bridgeto Iran and then back to Nakhchivan. So, that will allow us andother countries to use this road for transportation to Persian Gulfbecause that will be another extension of the north-south transportroute because bypassing Armenia and coming Nakhchivan thenextension is through Julfa to Iran and Iranian railroad. And alsofrom Nakhchivan, there is a plan, which already was announced byTurkish Government to build a railroad connection betweenNakhchivan and Kars. So, that will be also part of the East-WestTransport Corridor. Today's capacity of the railroad we arebuilding to Zangilan is around 5 million tons. But, if we see morecargoes, it can be expanded. So, Azerbaijan definitely willstrengthen its position as a regional transportation center withouthaving direct access to world ocean, but Armenia will remain just adeadlock as they are for more than thirty years.
With respect to the Russian peacekeepers, the announcement hasalready been made by the presidential administrations of Russia andAzerbaijan that they are leaving the Karabakh region of Azerbaijanbefore the timetable. And that was a joint decision by the leadersof Russia and Azerbaijan. I can also inform you how we negotiatedthis issue: I think it would be interesting. I have alreadyrevealed a couple of times in my meetings with Azerbaijanijournalists that on November 9th, when we were negotiating thetrilateral Statement through President Putin because we didn't haveany contact with Armenian colleagues. So, there were severaltelephone conversations, agreeing every item of the trilateralStatement. It lasted from early in the morning until almost themorning of November 10th. That's why we always say that theStatement was signed on November 10th because it was already, Ithink, 2 a.m. or even 2:30 a.m. in Baku. The item regarding Russianpeacekeepers was presented, and Armenia’s position was that thereshould be no time limit for them. In other words, they should stayforever. We could not agree with that. We insisted that thereshould be a time limit. That was one of the most difficult partswhere both sides could not agree. For us, it was one of the mostprincipal parts of the statement and our position was that if we donot agree on that, there'll be no statement and the war willcontinue. At that time, our troops were on the outskirts ofKhankendi. We de facto controlled so-called Lachin corridor and thefate of 15,000 Armenian troops, which were surrounded. How weliberated Shusha, it was absolutely clear for everyone. They wouldhave either surrendered or even worse for them. So, we said okay,there will be no agreement, we will continue. We will enterKhankendi within several hours. So, Armenia had to agree. Now Ithink they understand that we were right. So, a five-year term withthe possibility of extension if neither side objects was actuallythe starting point of the withdrawal of troops. So, what could havebeen the situation if we didn't have that timetable? We can onlyguess. But again, the decision to withdraw troops earlier was madebased on consultations between Azerbaijan and Russia. Azerbaijan isalways committed to its international obligations. And our positionwas that if it is written November 2025, it must be November 2025.But at the same time, both Russia and Azerbaijan clearly understoodthat they could leave earlier, but again, it was a joint decision,and this decision, I think, only strengthened Russian-Azerbaijanirelations.
And as you know, I was in Russia yesterday, and that's why werescheduled the time of our meeting. I returned at 2:30 a.m. thismorning. So, that's why I asked you to have the meeting not in themorning. So, I'm sure that this decision strengthened our relationsand also the public perception or public appreciation of bilateralrelations. Because it demonstrates that when countries have normalchannels of communication, respect each other, cooperate, don't doanything against each other, they can find agreement on the mostsensitive issues, and this example is a clear demonstration ofthat. Yesterday, once again, we reaffirmed the strategic substanceof the relations between Russia and Azerbaijan. This is to thebenefit of our country, I'm sure to the benefit of Russia, and tothe benefit of the region.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Craig Oliphant, Senior Adviser,Foreign Policy Centre, United Kingdom.
Craig Oliphant: Thank you, Mr. President, fortaking the time in a packed schedule, really to share your insightswith us. Craig Oliphant from the Foreign Policy Center in London.Please let me echo the appreciation expressed already by others toyou and the organizers for this really invaluable opportunity tomeet you for such a timely and important discussion. My questionalready was partly covered, but could you comment further on thecurrent outlook for border delimitation involving not only thereturn of the villages, as we've heard, but also the more complexissue of the exclaves. And obviously, we've all been following veryclosely the very welcome announcements from last week. How do youassess the prospects for implementation now moving forward, and theknock-on effect for the overall framework agreement? You mentioneda moment ago on COP29 coming out of the peace process and Iwondered if I can turn that proposition into a question. Do you seethe actual holding of COP29 in November as a propitious backclothfor further progress on reaching an outline agreement in the peaceprocess like a kind of push-pull dynamic in action through 2024Thank you.
President Ilham Aliyev: Thank you. I think, itis absolutely realistic to reach an agreement between Azerbaijanand Armenia before COP29, at least an agreement on our basicprinciples. I think, this is also an option: to agree on the basicprinciples and then to spend more time on details or wording. Buteven the draft can be ready, I think for that, both sides just needto work hard and maybe have many sessions of meetings, not just forone day, but maybe for several days.
Delimitation and a peace agreement are two separate issues. Ithink, it would be wrong to combine them and make one dependent onthe other. For a very simple reason, our border with Armeniasomething around 1,000 kilometers, maybe more, maybe less. Thebiggest part of that border was under occupation for 30 years, fromKalbajar, from the Murov mountain to the Araz River, close to 500kilometers. In Soviet times, even when we had administrativeborders, some parts of the administrative border between theArmenian Soviet Republic and the Azerbaijan Soviet Republic werenot identified. The biggest part of the border is absolutelyuninhabited, and the height of the mountains is 3,500 meters, andfor nine months a year, it is covered with snow. So, it's really avery difficult terrain. So, from a practical point of view, todelimitate this border within a short period of time is notpossible.
Another two examples of the regional issues. Azerbaijan andGeorgia, two friendly countries, and Armenia and Georgia, also twofriendly countries, could not delimitate their border for more than30 years. And not because, as I said, we have current problems, no.Both Armenia and Azerbaijan have friendly relations with Georgia,but just because it's a complicated issue. Our border with Georgia,I mean those segments of the border, which have been agreed isabout 70% only. So, it's a slow process. It is a process, whichneeds a high level of accuracy. Therefore, if we wait until theborder between Armenia and Azerbaijan is delimited and then sign apeace agreement. So, we will wait only maybe 30 years or more. So,our suggestion is to separate these two issues. Saying that I don'twant someone to misinterpret our position, or produce speculations.Azerbaijan and Armenia, when agreed on declaration of October 2022,clearly demonstrated that we will base our relations on well-known1991 Almaty Declaration. And second, we said that we do not haveterritorial claims against Armenia in case they don't haveterritorial claims against Azerbaijan. We demonstrated it toArmenia that if they continue to have territorial claims againstAzerbaijan, we will have territorial claims against Armenia andwhat will be the result of that? I think, now everybodyunderstands. After they publicly lifted territorial claims againstAzerbaijan and recognized Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan, ofcourse, from our side, there will be no territorial claims againstArmenia. Therefore, I just wanted to make it clear. Becausesometimes, those who are situated far away from here and want tobehave as more Armenian than Armenians themselves wants tomisinterpret our policy and our steps. Our policy and position isbased only on pragmatism.
The beginning of delimitation from the occupied villages ofGazakh was our proposal. We told the Armenia side that if theyreally want to demonstrate that they're ready to move forward, theyshould do it because these are the villages, which were inhabited.It is not some uninhabited hills, which can be contested. They wereinhabited by Azerbaijanis and were occupied. One of them was evenoccupied during the time of the Soviet Union in 1990. Actually,that's when the war started against us. And the fourth of them wasoccupied in 1992, after collapse of the Soviet Union. I think,around 10 or 12 kilometres of our state border, is alreadyconsidered to be delimited. This is a significant moment. It is notby chance that many regional and non-regional countries alreadyexpressed their support to that. How the process will continue,we'll see. As I said previously, both sides demonstratedconstructiveness. Both sides understand the sensitivity of thisissue, and at the same time commitment to international law. Ithink if the same approach is applied at a later stage, we can movefaster.
There is also one issue, which we always raise from point ofview of pragmatism that the border should be, of course,delimitated based on principles but at the same time, there aresuch parts of that border, which create problems for both sides. Itconcerns the roads, sometimes, security mechanisms, the visibilityof the depths, or the territory of each other. Therefore, we mustbe creative. We should not stick to the line and just go like ablind cat on that line. No, we take the line as a basis. But wemust be reasonable and agree on such a border that will be safe andsecure for both sides and comfortable for both sides. So, as Isaid, the biggest part of the border and its surroundings are notinhabited places, but there are parts where people live close toeach other. One of them was exactly the territory of those fourvillages where the distance between the settlements may be severalhundred meters or maybe less. When we raise this issue of fourvillages, we raised it actually right after the Second KarabakhWar. We never forgot about them.
The issue of exclaves is a different story because it's morecomplicated as these exclaves are situated, of course, in theterritory surrounded by other countries. Therefore, they must beaddressed during the process of delimitation. If the Armenian sidewants to address them now in the second stage, we are ready. Ifthey want to address them later, we're also ready. Afterdelimitation is finished and immediately demarcation is done now inthat area of the four villages of the Gazakh region, I think, bothsides, the two commissions on delimitation, must agree about thenext steps. We don't want this issue to be a kind of isolatedepisode. We want to continue on the path of delimitation. I wouldsuggest starting maybe from the easiest part. If the Armenian sidewants to start with the most difficult part like exclaves, we'realso ready for that.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Stanislav Pritchin, Head ofSector of Central Asia, IMEMO RAS, Russia.
Stanislav Pritchin: Mr. President, goodafternoon. Thank you very much for your time. My question lost alittle bit value after your comprehensive answer on an energybalance of Azerbaijan. But anyway, I will try. My question aboutnuclear energy because from the point of view of ecologicaldamaging, probably this is one of the most secure kind of energysources, especially taking into account that even recycling ofsolar panels usually now costs very, very high price. At the sametime, it's very difficult to organize this process without damagingenvironment. Meanwhile, we see now the real breakthrough in nuclearenergy from the point of view of using, for example, used fuel fromold style reactors for new reactor. So, Russia's Rosatom is one ofthe leading companies here and from this perspective especiallytake into account that gas resources is huge in Azerbaijan but theyare not endless and from the point of long-term environmentalissues, does Azerbaijan consider the possibility of using low powerreactors or generally nuclear power plants as the possible answerfor long-term demands for energy. Thank you very much.
President Ilham Aliyev: We've been approachedby Rosatom with different ideas, and now we are in the process ofconsultations with them. As you correctly mentioned, having hugedeposits of natural gas, which is considered to be the cleanestfossil fuel energy source, and also renewables, we feel ourselveson the safe side. We actually are even now exporting electricenergy. We have swap operations with Russia. Throughout the year,we export and import almost the same volume of electric energy toand from Russia, but we also export electric energy to Georgia andthrough Georgia to European destinations. So, for domesticconsumption, we will not need additional sources.
The second argument is that, for us, it could be interestingfrom the point of view of technological development, preparingspecialists, and planning the long-term strategy of our energypolicy. Therefore, from this point of view, we are interested inevaluating this potential. Especially, as you mentioned, with thenew technologies, it is now much more attractive and safe than everbefore. An important part is about the cost and who will cover it.With respect to renewable energy projects, which I alreadymentioned, all of them are financed and will be financed by foreigninvestors. In other words, Azerbaijan will not invest a dollar inthat. Of course, if local companies want to be co-investors, ofcourse, it is possible but not the Azerbaijan state. What we willinvest in only is energy grid because we need to strengthen ourenergy grid to be able to absorb thousands of megawatts of wind andsolar.
With respect to nuclear, usually, it is the host country whopays the bills and it is very costly. So, from an economic point ofview, I think it would not be wise now to enter these kinds ofarrangement even if it is a kind of loan arrangement. If it's aloan anyway, you will have to repay. From point of view ofenvironmental protection, yes, we are, of course, in favor ofenvironmentalism, but not to that stage to spend several billionsfor something, which you can get free of charge using the financingfrom other sources. So, this is actually the position ofAzerbaijan. We do not close the door. At the same time, we are notpursuing a proactive policy in that respect, we are in the phase ofevaluation. Of course, an important part will be related to themarkets because even now in order to get to the premium market, weneed to have a long way and to build thousands of kilometers oftransmission lines, including one beneath the Black Sea. So, forexport markets, it can work, for domestic consumption,problematic.
Hikmet Hajiyev: George Gvimradze, Director ofNews and Current Affairs, Georgian Public Broadcaster, Georgia.
George Gvimradze: Mr. president, Thank you somuch for your time. I would like to express my appreciation to theorganizers who invited me here for this really interestingopportunity. We may within our mutual region… my question will beabout our regional cooperation. This morning during the discussionswith the students there were a lot of talks about the stability andsecurity as a main, the major conditions for development. This iswhat really needed in our region. On one hand, we all havepragmatic positions to join our efforts within the region, even todevelop the joint energy capabilities. For example, you have theseplans for the green energy or along with the traditional energyresources you mentioned. Armenia has its nuclear capabilities,Georgia with its water resources, and you mentioned thesecapabilities of the energy transfer. On the other hand, you are theinitiator with the President Erdogan of Turkiye, back in 2022,about the format 3+3. The peace agreement with Armenia youmentioned it is hopefully on its way. But despite all the pragmaticthoughts, what can you say about the sustainable stability andsecurity? Do you believe it is really possible in our region, with,let's say, so quite complicated relationships among the possibleplayers of any regional cooperation. I mean, it is not sustainableto speak about development of one particular country in this verycomplicated region. We need sustainable regional cooperation, andwhat could be, in your opinion, the sustainable platform for thesekinds of cooperation inside our region? Thank you.
President Ilham Aliyev: I think that if we putan end to the long-lasting confrontation between Azerbaijan andArmenia and sign a peace agreement very soon, what you say can turninto reality. Because the potential of the countries of theSouthern Caucasus is already known, and we already know in whichareas we can work together. You mentioned the area of electricenergy and correctly identify the potential of the three countries.Yes, it is true. But if we add natural gas cooperation here, forinstance, between Azerbaijan and Georgia, we will see that it isalso mutually beneficial. Today, Georgia is hundred percent on thesafe side with respect to natural gas supply. And year after year,due to the growth of economy and industry in Georgia, theconsumption is growing. Year after year, we increase our supply.Now, I think it has already reached three billion cubic meters.It's almost 100 percent of the gas supply to Georgia, which comesfrom Azerbaijan. Potentially Armenia can also be recipient ofAzerbaijani gas, especially taking into account that, gas price forGeorgia is a very friendly, very preferential. From the point ofview of proximity, point of view of infrastructure, of course, itcould be natural to have this kind of cooperation.
When we were talking earlier about the Zangezur corridor, we didnot mention that we see it not only as a railroad or highwayconnection, but also potential communication, potential cable.Because one of the electric cables to expand our export capacitycan go through Armenia. Potentially, it can be even a gas pipeline.Because today in order to supply Nakhchivan with natural gas wehave arrangement with Iran. So, we actually getting a gas from Iranto Nakhchivan. Now we are building another pipeline - we finance it– from Türkiye to Nakhchivan and it will be the Azerbaijani gas. Itis like touch your left ear with the right hand. If it goes throughArmenia, it will be beneficial to all. It will save a lot of costs,of course, and many other issues like that. I know that Armeniawants to become a part of the Black Sea energy cable because ofextra energy capacity. But they cannot because relations withAzerbaijan are not settled. There are four countries involved:Azerbaijan, Georgia Romania, and Hungary, and Bulgaria is joining,and that's it. So, there's no way, and it is a consensus decision.Thus, a peace agreement is a starting point.
Should we plan our post-peace agreement in the future? Ofcourse, we should. We have discussed with Georgian colleaguesseveral times the possibility of trilateral consultations, just tostart consultations on issues of practical importance such astransportation, energy, potential trade relations. But every time,the Armenian side refused, and Georgian colleagues know it verywell. Regional cooperation with good relations with regionalcountries, I think, is the best scenario for the Southern Caucasus.By the way, we have a trilateral format of cooperation betweenAzerbaijan, Georgia, and Türkiye. Our different ministers meetregularly. So, all this is absolutely possible, but we need to havea breakthrough on a peace agreement. Frankly speaking, neitherGeorgia nor Azerbaijan face any kind of difficulties today withrespect to their energy or transportation security. The countrywhich lacks it is Armenia.
For me, frankly speaking, it is a big question why they opposethe Zangezur corridor so fiercely. Why they consider this as adanger. They have a kind of phobia, which I cannot explain. Theyeven speak against the word “corridor”. They think that “corridor”means a violation of sovereignty. But when we speak about theNorth-South Transport Corridor, which crosses Azerbaijan, we don'thave these phobias, “corridor” is a well-known international word.So, when they hear “Zangezur corridor”, they become almost insane.So, it is very strange. But again, we need to think about thefuture.
I think, you raise important issues to think about and to planpost-peace treaty development. Here, I also invite our colleaguesand participants to maybe think about that. Maybe on the level ofsome informal meetings in Georgia, to organize a kind ofsession-seminar on that just to see what could be the potential.Because now we can only assume what can happen, but maybe there canbe minimal things that we haven’t even thought about. So, we treatit positively; we think that regional processes must be taken careof by regional countries. By the way, this excellent example, whichwe discussed, of the delimitation and return of the four Gazakhvillages, demonstrates that when we work together on a bilateraltrack, we can achieve good results.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Ellen Wasylina, President andFounder, Trocadéro Forum Institute, France.
Ellen Wasylina: Thank you, Mr. President, it'san honor to be here and come back to Azerbaijan.
President Ilham Aliyev: Thank you.
Ellen Wasylina: Very pleased. I have a coupleof questions, but I think we're going to add some more in on if youallow me because I think most of the questions you alreadyanswered. The big question is, what do you hope to achieve with theCOP? But I think you've already answered most of that, right. Andthen, how can Azerbaijan combine energy security, supply anddemand, and sustainable economic, and social (ESG) development, andinvestments to achieve the U.N 2030 goals. If I may add just alittle bit to that Mr. President. If you could address maybe someeducation issues and how are you preparing the next generation ofyoung students that we met at ADA to meet the challenges that arecoming. Thank you, Mr. President.
President Ilham Aliyev: Thank you. I think thatbeing here in ADA is a good illustration of our educational policy,and it is absolutely clear for everyone that the best investment isin education and in the young generation. We're trying to do it forus. It's one of the main priorities. We have special programs withour international partners, including a special presidentialprogram for training our young generation in leading internationaluniversities. At the same time, a high-level of education inAzerbaijan is also a priority. So, we try to combine both. And now,with the presidential program financing education abroad, we mainlyconcentrate on domestic potential. Probably you know that soon, wewill have a separate building for the Azerbaijan-Italy University,also on the foundation of ADA. Actually, its activity has alreadystarted, but construction is ongoing. We have theAzerbaijani-French University here for many years, and also twouniversities from the Russian Federation: Moscow State Universityand Medical Academy.
With respect to sustainable development and energy, I think oureconomic performance and social programs clearly demonstrate thatwe have used the benefits from oil and gas to ensure fairdistribution and to tackle issues of unemployment and poverty. So,when we started our energy cooperation and began to receive thefirst revenues from oil sales, the level of poverty in Azerbaijanwas close to 50 percent. So, every second person was poor, andamong the refugees, it was more than 75 percent. So, you canimagine the situation. So now, we have reduced it to the level offive percent, and the same is with unemployment. Regarding socialinfrastructure, there is a large-scale construction happening inKarabakh now, but previously it was everywhere: modern hospitals,clinics, universities, and a special program for constructingschools. So, social infrastructure was one of the most important.Issues related to employment are always at the center of ourattention because our population is growing. So, year after year,we have tens of thousands of new citizens. Therefore, issues withemployment are something we must always be very attentive to andnot be relaxed about. When we see that the unemployment rate islow, but if we don't address the issue of development, it will bedifficult. Especially now, with this Fourth Industrial Revolutionwhere many specialties and professions will no longer be needed.So, we will face a serious challenge. Therefore, we need to prepareour young generation for new jobs, which do not exist now but willemerge in two to three years.
We pay special attention to vocational training. We now have aspecial program for opening vocational centers all over the countrywith respect to the kind of climatic conditions, or kind ofeconomic development of the regions. For instance, in touristicdestinations we open vocational touristic schools, in other parts -industrial. So, it's a combination of elements, but with the mainobjective, of course, to keep the level of literacy as high astoday, which is absolute, and to train young generation. So, theycan contribute to the development of the country. I remember when Ilaunched first time the program of sending young people abroad,there were some ideas that we need to take a kind of commitmentfrom them that they will come back. Otherwise, we will spend a lotof money and they will just stay where they study. I said: No. Isaid that we need to create such a condition in our country thatthey prefer to come back. So now, I see that absolute majority ofthose who have been trained in United States, Britain and otherEuropean countries come back. So, this is an indicator that we areon the right track. We need to work even harder so that the younggeneration of Azerbaijan does not leave their country. Because thisis one of the problems for many countries in the post-Soviet areathat young generation prefers to leave, and then you just facedepopulation. We have a growth in population. Some countries havedifferent problems. I don't know which is worse. I think ours isbetter because the more people you have in the country, the morepowerful you are. But you have to provide these people with jobs,housing, decent conditions, and healthcare. And that's what we aredoing. The absolute majority of the assets we got from oil and gassales are channeled into the social sector. Thank you.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Michael Reynolds, AssociateProfessor, Co-Director, Program in History and Practice ofDiplomacy, Princeton University, United States.
Michael Reynolds: Thank you Mr. President fortaking the time to meet with us and of course, thank you to ADAuniversity, in particular, Rector, ambassador Pashayev for makingthis possible as well as our visit tomorrow. As a professor, I'mvery gratified to hear that you're giving thought for education inAzerbaijan in the future of its youth. And earlier today, we havemet a number of outstanding Azerbaijani students, I was quiteimpressed by the quality of conversation. So I'm very glad to hearthat. Given that you've just come in, just returned from Moscow andmeeting with Vladimir Putin. I wanted to follow up on the questionposed by my colleague from Japan. As you know, as we all know,Russia for over 200 years has played a very important role in thisregion and has been an important power that now may be changing asit's drawing down its military presence, its peacekeepers fromAzerbaijan. It seems it's also drawing down its military presencein Armenia. At the same time, there are some other outside powersthat perhaps are trying to replace Russia in the region. And I'd becurious to hear your thoughts on the future of Russia's role in theSouth Caucasus and if also if you'd like to comment on the role ofother outside powers in the South Caucasus and what do you thinkmight be now might this play out? What sorts of benefits mightbring to Azerbaijan and the region? What sorts of dangers mightthose powers bring? Thank you.
President Ilham Aliyev: Russia is a neighbor ofAzerbaijan and a country with which we have very active cooperationin different areas. Yesterday, during the meeting with PresidentPutin, we broadly discussed these issues. Our economic cooperation,particularly in the area of transportation, of course, a big partis cooperation in the humanitarian area, and we have more than 300Russian schools in Azerbaijan. People who prefer to study inRussian schools choose them. So, there is a lot that we share incommon, and, of course, as a regional, also Caucasian country,because part of the Caucasus is within Russia’s boundaries. Ofcourse, Russia will never leave this region because it is in thisregion. I think all countries of the South Caucasus must beinterested in having good relations with Russia, based on mutualrespect, sovereignty, territorial integrity, and mutual interest. Ithink the example of Azerbaijan really demonstrates that this ispossible.
By the way, this was also one of the topics, which we discussedyesterday with my Russian colleagues, that we managed to elaboratesuch a format of cooperation, which is mutually beneficial. Thereare certain phobias, stereotypes, and propaganda, but I think inthe case of Azerbaijan, you can see that it is too muchexaggerated. You can protect your sovereignty, your independence,not only formally but also in reality, your independent policy, andbe in good relations with Russia. This is absolutely possible; justlook at Russian-Azerbaijani relations. By the way, we discussed it.There are many more peoples in the former Soviet Union who arecloser to Russia, either on ethnic or confessional grounds, butlook at their relations with Russia compared to our relations. So,I'm sure that these positive trends will continue. Azerbaijan isplaying an important role in the Southern Caucasus, and this roleis growing, which is only beneficial.
With respect to others who want to come. We need to treat it, ofcourse, with special attention and properly measure our resources.I mean Azerbaijan. How we can address or influence this process.For us, the main concern, as you can imagine, is potentialrevanchist trends. We have full rights to be concerned becauseArmenia launched aggression against us, occupied our territory,expelled millions of people from their homes, looted ourterritories, and devastated everything, destroying 20% of theterritory.
So, we have full right to be very seriously concentrated oneverything what is happening in Armenia. It is not that we areinterfering in their internal affairs, or in their relations withsome other countries, which are situated far away. Not at all. Wenever interfere in any country’s internal affairs and all ourneighbors know it. But it is a matter of our national security. Wecannot sit and wait seeing how France, India and Greece areweaponizing Armenia against us, and do it openly, demonstratively,and as if trying to prove something to us. We cannot just sit andwait and we openly express this position to Armenian government andto those, who want to take care of Armenia now. We will have totake serious measures if we see a serious threat to us. So far,those weapons, which are being delivered to Armenia. Some of themare dangerous, some of them are not, but this is not critical. So,my message to Armenia, once again using this platform, is don't doit. And again, my message absolutely should not be considered assomething arrogant. No. Something which is not unaffordable again.No. I'm not going to interfere in whatever they do. It is theirlife and their country. But when they build military power againstus, when they sometimes concentrate their troops on our border, wecannot remain silent. This is about our security, and we have theright to be concerned. So, my message to them and to those who wantto use them as an outpost against Azerbaijan; don't do it. Nomatter how many weapons are sent to Armenia, they have no chanceagainst us. The Second Karabakh War demonstrated this. For only 44days, we climbed the mountains, which ordinary people cannot climb,just hiking, and we did it with weapons, with light weapons anddestroyed their army completely.
Then, several hours of anti-terror operation, when we put an endto separatism, also demonstrated to them. We again have no badintentions against Armenia. We don't have any claims against theirterritory, but they should understand that, firstly, these weaponswill not help them. Secondly, this is dangerous. My duty is to warnthem, and also to warn those who are behind them, manipulatingthem, that this is really dangerous. They should listen to what Isay. Because they know that they should listen to what I say. Myrecommendation is that. And also apart from that, Armenia can beanother candidate for global confrontation. Unfortunately, we havethese cases close to our borders. So, they can be used for a globalconfrontation between the West and Russia, and if it's the bestscenario for them, it is for them to decide. But that could be acatastrophe. Those today who promise them ultimate and continuoussupport will run away if the first bullet is shot on the border.I'm absolutely sure. The so-called European peace observers, whichare retired military and policemen, use binocular diplomacy againstus and demonstrate - I don't know what they want to demonstrate -they must be grateful to us that we do not respond. I'm sure theywill run away if something serious happens. So, this is how we seethe situation, and again, the way to security and stability in theregion goes through Azerbaijan-Armenia normalization. They mustlearn, I mean Armenia, to be a normal neighbor and to put an end toterritorial claims to their neighbors. We see some positive trends.But this is not enough. It is only words, and we know how they canchange their mind. In 2019, they were saying that “Karabakh isArmenia”, and that was a trigger for the war. Now they say“Karabakh is Azerbaijan”.
I don't know, maybe in five years’ time, when they are suppliedwith deadly weapons, they will say again, “Karabakh is Armenia”,and what should we do? We cannot wait. So, thank you for raisingthis issue. I think it was a good opportunity for me to send amessage to Yerevan.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Thank you Mr. President. It’smore than two hours that you spent together with us and you coveredmore than 12 questions. And we have quite a substantial number ofthe questions in our list, but I know that you're actually quitebusy if you can allow us to stay one-two questions.
President Ilham Aliyev: If the audience is nottired. We can continue. I will try to be short in my answers.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Iulian Chifu, President,Conflict Prevention and Early Warning Center, Romania.
Iulian Chifu: Thank you very much, Mr.President, for inviting me here, and also I should congratulate youfor having the retreat of the Russian troops quite earlier and notpaying at least the fees that some of us paid for seeing themleaving tens of years after the moment of the occupation. So, myquestion is related to energy security to the cable that you'vealready had the opportunity of invoking that the project with EUthat we are sharing for clean energy to be sent and shipped toRomania, Hungary and so on. So actually, as you know, we haveanother project with the data cables, so a number of projects areunderwater. And since the wider Black Sea region is quitecomplicated nowadays, and the security of the underwaterinfrastructure is also at stakes. I would kindly ask you, if youcan comment or if you have ideas how we can improve this part ofthe security that is also concerning, yes, green energy moving andtransport that but also the security of the Black Sea region. Thankyou.
President Ilham Aliyev: I think that this issueprimarily must be addressed by Black Sea countries because ourresponsibility probably will end close to the shores of the BlackSea. If we make analogies with our fossil fuel projects, it wasagreed that every country is responsible for their segment of thepipeline. For instance, in Azerbaijan, we never had anypenetration, illegal penetration, or stealing from the pipeline orany other unpleasant events. So, each country - Azerbaijan,Georgia, and Türkiye - on their territory, they provided thesecurity, and the same is with the Southern Gas Corridor. So, nowwith the green energy cable, I am sure that Black Sea countrieswill take care of that. We cannot be helpful because we are notphysically present there. I think that it should not be subject tokind of attack or intervention or penetration because it is notagainst anyone. This cable is just in the interest of all thecountries of the Caspian, Caucasus, and Black Sea. But, again, ofcourse, I'm sure that corresponding countries will take care ofthat on that part of the Black Sea, which belongs to theirjurisdiction.
Hikmet Hajiyev: László Vasa, Chief Advisor,Senior Research Fellow, Hungarian Institute of InternationalAffairs, Hungary.
László Vasa: Mr. President, thank you very muchto get the opportunity to be here again. Thanks for the organizers.I am very grateful to be here and raise a question. Some of myquestions were answered. But I have one left, short one. How do yousee the chances for securing Turkmen natural gas for Europe throughAzerbaijan?
President Ilham Aliyev: First of all, if thisdecision is made, it must be made by Turkmenistan. If they decideto build a Trans Caspian gas pipeline, going under the Caspian andthen through Azerbaijan to Europe, they will approach us. So farthey haven’t. And of course, we will not initiate this project.Because usually, the country which is the owner of resources isimplementing the project. For instance, when it was theBaku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan or Southern Gas Corridor, it was Azerbaijan,which initiated and was a kind of coordinator, and all the hostgovernment agreements and agreements with off-takers werenegotiated and signed by Azerbaijan. So, I do not remember a casewhen the transit country could finance or initiative that. So far,we haven’t received any messages from Turkmenistan. Therefore, Icannot comment on that. There are a lot of discussions about that.But my advice is just to evaluate a variety of factors; first, whowill pay for that? Second, what will be the non-cooperativefinancing, taking into account what I already said aboutrestrictions of European financial institutions to finance fossilfuel projects? Who will be the recipients of this gas, and whatwill happen after the gas is delivered to Azerbaijan? Becausetoday, the Southern Gas Corridor is fully packed. So, we today,think about the expansion of TANAP and expansion of TAP. So, ifsomebody thinks that building a pipeline under the Caspian makesthe deal done, it is not. Because either there must be anotherpipeline all the way down from Baku to Europe or I don't know. So,a lot of questions, and no answers. Therefore, my comments arebased on that.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Jakub Korejba, Non-residentFellow, AVIM Center for Eurasian Studies, Poland.
Jakub Korejba: Thank you, Mr. President. It's apleasure to be here again, a pleasure and the true joy of a scholarand theoretician who can see the history happening, as my deepfeeling is that what we are witnessing here is the future in themaking. I come from Poland, the country that has always hadinteresting neighbors and this is what makes our two countriessimilar to each other despite their geographical distance. And thisis not exactly an optimistic constatation because as we could seeduring last few months, not all of your neighbors are interested inpeace, progress, cooperation and prosperity. Therefore, my questionto you is, do you think that the unconstructive stance of yourArmenian partner during the peace process is simply a bargainingkind of theater and part of the negotiating position? Or is itsomething deeper long-term strategy? And if this continues, isthere a plan B in case Yerevan keeps rejecting the piece andengages external forces to destabilize the region. I know thatAzerbaijan has a lot of strategic patience. You proved that morethan once. But what if your patience is ignored and abused? Isthere an alternative strategy for such a case? Thank you.
President Ilham Aliyev: Well, the alternativestrategy can only be continuing the arms race; we have no otherchoice. It is not what is preferable, especially taking intoaccount that we need a lot of financing to rebuild the liberatedterritories. But if we don't reach a peace agreement, that willmean that Armenia, as you mentioned, is planning somethingdifferent. And they're using this process only to win time. We havequite substantial reasons to believe that this is the case. Thoughwe're not sure. Taking into account the history when we were since1992 until 2020 in the process of negotiations, but actuallyArmenia used these negotiations only to cement the occupation andto make the de-facto occupation eternal.
That was their plan and now when we not only analyze more, butwhen we hear a lot of domestic politics in Armenia, we once againget convinced that they were not planning to liberate even onecentimeter of our territory, including the current government.Because the way how the current government is behaving should notmislead anyone. And when I hear from some Armenian supporters inthe West that look how brave they behave, I always say that butwhat was the motivation of their bravery? If not for 2020September-November, today they would have continued to shout inKhankendi, “Karabakh is Armenia”. So, we made them brave; they takebrave steps if they considered, not because they are soconstructive, but because they're scared to be very open and frank,they're scared. You know, not to be scared, they need to have peacewith us. We will see because, as I said, the fact of the so-calledNagorno-Karabakh is out; they agreed that it will not be in thepeace agreement. So, that means that the main obstacle is no longerhere, and if they stick to some not so important terminology, wewill just clearly see that they want again to use this time to getmore weapons and then to attack us again. But, we will not givethem this chance because it's absolutely clear, and once again, Iwant to say that those who try to direct them against us are makinga big mistake. So, we already have a very bitter experience ofalmost 30 years of occupation. And we'll plan our future based onthe real situation. So, this is how we see the process. So, I thinkby the end of the year, it will be absolutely clear. So, if thepeace agreement is not signed, then, as I said, the arms race willcontinue. And well, if they don't want a peace agreement, we canlive without this agreement, but will it be comfortable for them tolive next to us without this agreement? I don't think so.
I think it's mainly in their interest, more than in ourinterest, to agree on the terms, which are based on internationallaw, and in these proposals and these comments, which we sent,there is nothing that cannot be accepted. Only they must bereasonable and not demand the unachievable. It’s also important forthem to know, and for those who support them, that the thirty yearsof occupation and the result of the Second Karabakh War should notbe ignored, and no one should behave as if that never happened. Theresult of the war always influences the post-war situation. And inour case, we did not take advantage of our victory. Not at all. Westopped, as I promised during the war, and I said: “Give us a datewhen you leave our territory, and we will stop,” and we stopped.And that's only almost four years, and then in Karabakh, when theystarted to demonstratively ignore us, when they held so-calledpresidential elections in Nagorno-Karabakh and elected a so-callednew president, when a criminal oligarch from Moscow came there andstarted to behave as if he's a prime minister of a country and alsofinancing terrorism and spreading threats to different people. Theyshould have known that we will not tolerate it, and we deliveredthe message to them many times directly and through Brussels, asthrough other channels - don't play with fire. We can restoresovereignty anytime, and no one will stop us, and that's whathappened. It lasted several hours, not 23. 23 hours were neededjust to finalize the formalities. It lasted several hours, lessthan 10 hours. And it was done. So, that was a lesson to them. TheSecond Karabakh War was the lesson. And again, we did it, and wedidn't do anything else. Who could have stopped us then? If we hadsome terrible plans that some people in some Western Europeancapitals tried to present, who could have stopped us? This retiredFrench policeman on the border? Could this have stopped us? Ofcourse not. We stopped ourselves. Because we don't want theterritory of Armenia; we want only ours to be under our controlcompletely and forever.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Carlo Marino, Founder andDirector, Eurasiaticanews; Vice President, Italy AzerbaijanAssociation in Milan, Italy.
Carlo Marino: Mr. President, thank you for thehonor you give me. I am a friend of Azerbaijan. I am alsovice-president of Italy Azerbaijan Association in Milan. Myquestion is, what is your opinion on the current state of relationsbetween Italy and Azerbaijan? And are there opportunities forcollaboration between our two countries in the fields of greeneconomy? Thank you very much.
President Ilham Aliyev: Relations areexcellent. Italy is one of our closest partners and friends in theEuropean Union. Not only is it a good and reliable partner, but wealso have very active political contacts. My visits to Italy andthe visit of the President of Italy to Azerbaijan are goodillustrations of our partnership. Today, Italy is one of theleading countries in activities in Karabakh and EasternZangezur.
Actually, it is second after Türkiye in the number of companiesthat are working there now. And they are working on very importantprojects. On cultural heritage restoration, for instance, thedestroyed Palace of Karabakh Khan in Aghdam is being restored. Theyare working on the restoration of mosques in different liberatedcities. So economic cooperation is excellent. Italy is our maintrading partner. And oil from Azerbaijan makes a substantial partof Italian oil consumption. And also, I think Azerbaijan is thesecond or third gas supplier to Italy. I can say only excellent, Ithink more than ever. But also, the Italy-Azerbaijan University,when ADA and five leading Italian universities created a jointuniversity, is also based on profound political and culturalties.
On green energy, we'll be happy to work with Italian companies.So far, we haven’t started, but the potential is here. By the wayin the energy area Italian companies are our main partners. Forinstance, a famous company Ansaldo is a supplier of turbines to ouralmost 1300 megawatt power station under construction inMingachevir. There are Italian other companies including MaireTecnimont, which was a contractor of the big industrial site. Alsohelping us in renovation of our refinery. So, these are really avery solid foundation and very diverse relations, which are growingyear after year, and thank you for naming yourself a friend ofAzerbaijan. We have many friends of Azerbaijan in Italy. I wouldlike to ask you to convey my best greetings to all of them. By theway, in the energy area, Italian companies are our main partners.For instance, the famous company Ansaldo is a supplier of turbinesto our almost 1,300-megawatt power station currently underconstruction in Mingachevir. Other Italian companies, includingMaire Tecnimont, which was a contractor of the big industrial site,are also helping us in the renovation of our refinery. So it'sreally a very solid foundation and very diverse relations, whichare growing year after year. And thank you for naming yourself afriend of Azerbaijan. We have many friends of Azerbaijan in Italy,and I would like to ask you to convey my best greetings to all ofthem.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Amb. Abdulaziz Al-Horr,Director, Diplomatic Institute of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs,Qatar.
Abdulaziz Al-Horr: Mr. President, thank youvery much. Actually, I would like to ask what are the keychallenges Azerbaijan is facing in balancing economic developmentwith environmental sustainability especially that Azerbaijan is ahydrocarbonic economy-based country? I knew that you partiallyanswered this question. Maybe we'd like to add some key other keychallenges as well.
President Ilham Aliyev: We have already managedto a certain extent to diversify our economy, and now, oil and gasmake up less than half of our GDP. But our exports are somethinglike 95% based oil and gas. So one of the main objectives now is todiversify our exports. It will not be easy because, as I alreadysaid, gas production and export will grow, and for other sectors ofeconomy, we need markets for exports. Our problem is that we do nothave easy access to the European market, the market of the EU,because of certain restrictions and quotas, etc. Our main marketsare neighboring countries, primarily Russia, which is our mainmarket for non-energy goods, and also Türkiye. I know that todiversify our export, it is not enough only to produce; we need tohave access, but we are working on that.
But with respect to other sectors of our economy, we have bighopes regarding transportation. As I already said, this juncture ofcorridors will create a lot of economic activity. We also considerthese transportation routes not only as facilitation and transitbut also as an opportunity to build industry along the route. So,we hope that manufacturers from the region will come and undertakethese projects. We are now in the active phase of development ofthe Alat Free Economic Zone, which is already accumulatingresidents. So, we're trying to do maximum what we can in order todevelop other sectors of the economy. Also, digital transformationis one of them. Industrial development is now based on a morescience-based approach, as I already mentioned, especiallyconcerning employment and the Fourth Industrial Revolution. By theway, the Davos World Economic Forum selected Azerbaijan as one ofthe regional centers for the World Economic Forum’s Center for theFourth Industrial Revolution. So, this was also a sign ofappreciation for what we are doing. There is huge potential, as wehave already discussed, in renewables, with 157 gigawatts ofoffshore potential alone. Many companies are now working with us,and as I mentioned earlier, we need to strengthen our grid to beable to absorb all of that. So, I think the future ispredictable.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Laurent Vinatier, RegionalAdviser, Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue, Switzerland.
Laurent Vinatier: Good afternoon. I would liketo make a comment I'm working for the Center for Human Rights andDialogue. It's a mediation organization and I fully agree with you.The less mediators, the better for the peace process. I'm gonnachange my job at some point. I wanted to ask you a question aboutTurkiye. I spend a lot of time in Armenia and yes, Armenia isdead-locked and polarized politically? And to what extent you thinkthat Azerbaijan could let Armenia build more bridges with Turkiye,giving Armenia the space it needs to make steps forward.
President Ilham Aliyev: Yes, Armenia andTürkiye are currently working on the process of normalization ofrelations, and we support that. We have publicly stated that oursupport for Turkish-Armenian normalization, and you may be awarethat Armenia has territorial claims not only against Azerbaijan butalso against Türkiye. This issue definitely needs to be addressed.You know, that national symbol of Armenia is Aghridag Mountain,which they call Ararat, and it is situated in Türkiye, which Ithink is absolutely unacceptable. And my personal opinion, it isabsolutely wrong to send such a message to their society.
I remember that the previous President of Armenia, SerzhikSargsyan, was once asked at a meeting with, I think, some youngmembers of his party or something like that, “Now we’ve liberatedthe Artsakh (so-called). What about Western Armenia?” That's howthey called and some of them still call Türkiye. “What about ourlands? When will they be liberated?” And he said: “We did our joband this is up to you to do it.” So, this is not something Iinvented; you can find it on the internet. That’s what he said, andthat’s what they thought. This, I think, is the biggest tragedy ofArmenian society; that they really thought they could separate thatpart of Türkiye from Türkiye and adjust it to Armenia. So, theyoverestimated themselves, and this is their biggest problem. Nowthey want to normalize, and we support it, but they need to get ridof all these attributes.
With respect to Azerbaijan, they need to change theirconstitution. And again, I'm saying that not because I want tointerfere in their affair, but because in their constitution, theyhave a reference to the declaration of independence, which statesthat the so-called Nagorno-Karabakh is part of Armenia. So, how canwe sign the peace agreement when they have such a reference intheir constitution? So, when I say that you need to change theconstitution, it’s not because I'm arrogant or trying to be rude.No, it is because a precondition. Similarly, I think their nationalsymbol, Aghridagh Mountain, must be changed. They have manymountains in Armenia; they can choose another one if they like. Butas far as I know, there is coordination between Azerbaijan andTürkiye on this issue, as well as on many others, because Türkiyeand Azerbaijan, I think, are the two countries closest to eachother in the world on a global scale. And it’s not just theAlliance Declaration that unites us, but a lot of things thatcontribute to our unity, which are important factors for regionalsecurity and stability. I mean, Turkish-Azerbaijani unity. I knowthat the established position in Azerbaijan and Türkiye is that twoprocesses must go in parallel. Turkish-Armenian rapprochement andAzerbaijan-Armenian normalization should go in parallel. This isour position, and it is also the position of the Turkish President.The ideal situation is that one day two agreements can be signed -a peace agreement between Azerbaijan and Armenia, and anormalization agreement between Armenia and Turkiye, which includesthe opening up of all communications, putting an end todecades-long hatred, turning the page, and starting normaldevelopment. What we hear from Yerevan officials? Yes, we take noteof that. There must be a difference between real Armenia andmythological, they call it historical, but I call it mythological,because history should not be subject to manipulation. So, theycreated myths about history. They incorporated in their historyhistorical personalities, which never had any Armenian ethnicroots. So, this is a historical manipulation. At one point, theystarted to believe in all those myths. That was a tragedy. Becausethey created the mythology, they wanted the world to believe it,and they started to believe it themselves. When they say that theyoung generation of Armenians will take Turkish territory, that wasa degradation of a serious psychological disease, not only ofSerzhik Sargsyan, but also of those who listen to him and those whoasked him this question. So now, what we expect? That Armeniangovernment will move from words to actions, and we will judge themby their actions. They need to understand that theTurkish-Azerbaijani alliance is as solid as rock, and they need totake that into account now and in the future.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Bruno Maçães, Senior Advisor,Flint Global, Portugal.
Bruno Maçães: Mr. President, good afternoon, Iwant to ask about the European Union, which hasn't come up a lot inthis conversations maybe not a good sign for the European Union.You know that we have elections in about a month and a half – newEuropean Parliament and new EU Commission, not a new EuropeanCommission president but a new president of the European Council, anew high representative, maybe new commissioner positions ondefense, an important commissioners on energy. You talked a littlebit about your disappointments with European Union on questionslike finance for energy projects and perhaps also trade. I wantedto ask you to put your thoughts on the next five years and ofstrategic relationship with the European Union. What do you expectfrom them vis-à-vis Azerbaijan?
President Ilham Aliyev: Well, our expectationsare based on common sense, on an understanding of the policy of theEuropean Union, and what we can achieve in our bilateral relations.We never set targets that cannot be reached. Therefore, we neverset the target to become a member of the EU. We clearly understoodand understand that this is not realistic. It will never happen,even if we do everything they demand. The example of Türkiye is agreat illustration to that. Many countries were admitted to theEuropean Union after Türkiye became a candidate, but Türkiye wasnot, only because the population of Türkiye is Muslim.
Let's be very fair. We speak very openly. To say that Türkiyedoes not correspond to some criteria is absolutely groundless. So,that was a factor, and we understand it. We are also Muslim. Theywill never accept us. So, why should we insist? Let us elaborate ona mechanism of cooperation that will be mutually acceptable. Ithink that we were very close to that, very close before, recently,before we saw that the right kind of attempts to make a dividingline in the Southern Caucasus. That was particularly why weexpressed our concern with the unprecedented meeting in Brussels ofthe President of the European Commission, the Secretary of State ofthe United States, and the Armenian Prime Minister. Never in thehistory of these institutions was there a meeting like that withanyone from the former Soviet Union, even with Ukraine, Georgia,and Moldova. These kinds of meetings did not happen except forArmenia, which is a member of the Eurasian Union, a military allyof Russia, has a Russian military base, Russian border security ontheir border with Iran, Türkiye, and now with Azerbaijan, is amember of the Collective Security Treaty Organization - kind oflike NATO for this part of the world. And we had legitimateconcerns about that. Because we had credible information that therewas a military component to that meeting. We still believe thatthere was. I don't know to what degree it materialized or not, butit is a serious concern. Plus, we know that European Union isplanning to allocate substantial finance from the so-calledEuropean Peace Facility. Actually, this is a structure, whichfinances the supply of weapons. It is called a peace facility, butit is not peace actually. This is again against us and this is alsoof concern. So, these are the main factors of our concern.Unfortunately, again, Armenia is interfering in our relations withother countries and institutions. My answer would not be fully andcompletely sincere if I don't mention the person you mentioned whowill be substituted - the High Representative for Foreign Affairs,who said that the European Union is a garden and the rest of theworld is a jungle. And that was a public statement. He called allof us the jungle - Africa, Asia, Latin America. If it was said by amember of the European Parliament, even the President of EuropeanParliament, I wouldn't have been surprised, because the EuropeanParliament is one of the centers of Islamophobia and corruption,which is well-known. But it was said by the person who isresponsible for diplomacy of the European Union, and no one in theEuropean Commission, those who stand higher than him, correctedhim. No one said “Go, Mr. Borrell, and apologize in front of therest of the world.” You call us a jungle, okay, but your garden’strees would have dried out if not for the jungle. How can wecontinue business as usual and pretend that we didn't hear? Wecannot and we say it, and I say it publicly. So, these arefundamental issues. Yes, we have cooperation in energy, and theyasked us to help when there was a disruption of gas supply fromRussia. They came and asked us to help. In July 2022, just severalmonths after the war in Ukraine, we signed declarations. They askedus to increase supply, we said okay. We started to invest. Wewanted to help them, and we still want to help. Anyone who wantshelp can rely on us, but we must see the adequate attitude to usand seriously assess our concerns. Our concern is actually thesecurity of our country and our people. We suffered fromoccupation, and Europe turned a blind eye to our refuges. Now, theyhelp people who moved from Karabakh back to Armenia. I support it,and they do a good thing to help them, 60,000 maximum, because therest were military personnel. But what about the millions ofAzerbaijanis? Why didn't they help them? What was the reason? Whythey didn't help them? So, these are questions, which we ask, andwe don't have answers. So, again, understanding the geopolitics ofthe region, we should base our steps not on kind of expectationsand perceptions but on real situation. At the same time, I thinkopen discussions with all the partners including European Union arenecessary. If they want to be more active in the Southern Caucasus,they cannot ignore Azerbaijan, the biggest country with respect toterritory, population and economic potential. If they want toignore Azerbaijan, they will not be in the Southern Caucasus. Thisis clear. We are ready for cooperation but based on mutual respectand mutual interest. That would be my answer.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Klaus Larres, Professor, WilsonCenter / UNC-Chapel Hill, United States.
Klaus Larres: Thank you very much for your manyexhaustive remarks. It's certainly most interesting to be here.Perhaps, towards the end of the afternoon it would be interestingto hear your views on how the Ukraine war can be resolved. The waris dragging on without any end in sight, as far as I can see. Chinais contributing to Russia's economy and also to its war effort.Then, the US House of Congress has just passed a huge aid bill forUkraine. And there's serious concern in Europe, as far as Iunderstand that if Ukraine is defeated, Putin will go further intothe Baltic states into Poland. How can the situation, which seemsto be escalating, which doesn't seem to get better, how can thesituation be resolved? What can Azerbaijan do, and also maybe outof curiosity, you talked to Mr. Putin last night. Was the Ukrainewar and the resolution to the war mentioned, were are any goodsuggestions made? Thank you.
President Ilham Aliyev: No, yesterday wediscussed only our bilateral issues and issues related to situationin the Southern Caucasus. I don't know how Russian Ukrainian warcan end, if somebody knows probably should be nominated to theNobel Peace Prize. I don't think anybody knows how it will end now.But maybe, I will put it this way; when it can end. Because sooneror later, wars stop. I can speak from our experience. It might beinteresting to note that when we signed the ceasefire agreement inMay 1994, the war didn’t actually stop. So, something similar couldhappen between Russia and Ukraine. Even if they agree to stop theactive phase of the war, it won’t guarantee that the war will end.During the times of occupation, we had tensions on the line ofcontact, sabotage groups, sniper warfare, and many other dangerousepisodes. Our line of contact was much shorter than today's line ofcontact or battle between Russia and Ukraine. So, imagine if aceasefire agreement is signed, will that guarantee that peace willcome? No, we waited 28 years. After that, we restored sovereigntyby force. We did it because we were right and because we could doit. And for us, it was a matter of life and death. At that time, weweren’t sure who would step in on the Armenian side. There couldhave been different options. And none of them were pleasant for us,but we didn't think about that at that time. For us, it was eitherwe restore our sovereignty and dignity or we all die. That was ourapproach. We waited, we accumulated power. We worked on theinternational arena. We tried to prove our case and explain that wewere a victim of aggression. But all was basically without anyresult. Yes, international institutions adopted resolutions,decisions, etc. But they did not materialize. There was nomechanism of implementation. So, we materialized it by force. As Isay, we brought peace by war. That's also an option, and wedemonstrated that it is possible. So, I don't have a practicalanswer. As I said, I think no one knows when it will stop. But evenif it stops, it's not a guarantee that there'll be no back-set.What can Azerbaijan do? Nothing, absolutely nothing from thepractical point of view. We provided humanitarian and financialassistance to Ukraine worth more than 30 million euros. We areparticipating in the reconstruction in the city of Irpin, wherethere is a big Azerbaijani diaspora, and many social infrastructureis being restored by Azerbaijan. Nothing more. We do not supplyweapons to Ukraine, even though we've been asked, but we cannot. Wesay it openly and publicly, and we will not. Humanitarianassistance, yes. Weapons, no. So, that’s my answer. Of course, it'sa big tragedy for two peoples who are very close to each other,from an ethnic point of view, from a religious point of view. It'sa big tragedy. Was there a chance to avoid the war? I think, yes.Was there a chance for Ukrainian leaders in previous years to buildnormal relations with Russia? I'm absolutely sure that yes. I wasjust speaking about Russian-Azerbaijani relations. We areneighbors. We build strong partnership relations. We respect eachother's sovereignty. We do not interfere in each other's affairs.Couldn't it have been possible between Russia and Ukraine? Ofcourse, Russia and Ukraine are two very close peoples. Why did ithappen? Who is to blame? I have my opinion, but I will keep it tomyself. But I think the chance was missed in the beginning of 2000.The chance for Ukraine to build a strong state was missed. That'smy personal opinion based on my experience and knowledge. I knewand worked with all Ukrainian presidents, except the first one. Ihave been in this position since 2003. And when I say something,it's because I know and have experienced it firsthand, not becausesomebody told me something. I have witnessed many episodes inRussian-Ukrainian relations. Tense, friendly, hostile, but neverlike what we see today, never. This is unfortunately a tragedysituation, and people are dying every day. It must be stopped. Whocan stop it? I don't know. I have tried to be very open. Disclosingsome episodes from my memory is the maximum I could afford.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Wojciech Górecki, SeniorFellow, Centre for Eastern Studies (OSW), Poland.
Wojciech Górecki: Mr. President, thank you.Great honor to be here. Frankly speaking, I heard most of theanswers I’d like to ask you, but let me ask about the situation inthe Middle East. How risky is conflict between Iran and Israel?Azerbaijan is a neighbor of Iran with a very good relations withIsrael, with a very deep alliance with Türkiye. I guess, what wasgoing on in the Middle East is so extremely indirectly importantfor you. How serious is the situation?
President Ilham Aliyev: Well, I can sayprobably what you know about the situation. Noting more than that.With respect to close neighborhood, yes, this is our geography. Weare used to living in this geography, and maybe for people fromEurope it could seem to be very risky, but it is our life. Wecannot change it. So, we are used to living in this geography andprotecting our security, statehood and lifestyle. I have said manytimes in different audiences that in Azerbaijan, we do not haveserious potential risk. All the potential risks we may face maycome from abroad. What we should do is to keep our doors closed totroublemakers and open to loyal guests. What we can observe is thatboth countries are not interested in escalation. This is a goodsign. Maybe these kinds of mutual attacks were necessary for bothsides to understand that they should refrain from these provocativesteps. I think they demonstrated a high level of wisdom in decidingto stop. I think they would have stopped even without advices fromother sources. Because neither of them is interested in that. Itwould lead to another devastating confrontation, which neither ofthese countries, nor the peoples of these countries, nor the worldcan afford. So, do we feel some concern? Well, not more than usual.We live in this geography where things happen, where wars havealways been a way of treating your neighbor. The Caucasus,unfortunately, whether it’s south or north, has been an arena forwars and bloodshed for centuries. What can we do? IncludingAzerbaijan. So, we put an end to war by war. We have now recess, Iwould say. How long will it last? Nobody knows. It doesn’t onlydepend on us. If it did, it would last forever. But it doesn’tdepend solely on us. The Caucasus, this part of Caucasus, I mean,the South Caucasus, is becoming more and more attractive to manycountries. Because location, natural resources, and neighborhoodare important. Azerbaijan is the only country which borders withRussia and Iran. No other country has a border with both of thesecountries. This is our life, we live it with dignity and withmaximum commitment to our independence.
I think today's Azerbaijan is a good illustration that it ispossible. The geography and difficulty should not be used as apretext for complaints. You know, our geography is different fromEuropean, but this is our life and we must live like an independentcountry, and achieve a success in order to demonstrate to people ofAzerbaijan that our choice and our lifestyle is the best in theregion. That's what we're trying to do.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Nathir Obeidat, President,University of Jordan, Jordan.
Nathir Obeidat: Thank you, Mr. President forthis comprehensive discussion. Again, most of my questions wereanswered. But still, I will ask other questions based on yourexperience with Armenia and you have the feeling of occupation.What do you think about the suffering of people in Gaza? Can you dosomething in order that you have good relations with King AbdullahII from Jordan? Because here we are talking about the human factorand suffering of people. Not only killing but people that don'thave food to eat and etc. So, I want to hear from you about this.Thank you.
President Ilham Aliyev: Yes, our feelings areabsolutely clear. What all the people who watch this tragedy - wefeel the same. We feel big sympathy with innocent victims, withfamilies who lost their beloved ones. We feel sorrow when we seehow children die. Our feelings are absolutely common to everynormal person. What we can do? Again, I already tried to answerthis with respect to the Russian-Ukrainian war; not much. We arenot part of the region, and if regional countries cannot doanything, then what can Azerbaijan do? Neighboring countries,unfortunately, also cannot do anything. So, this issueunfortunately leads to an unprecedented tragedy and trulyunprecedented level of injustice. That what I feel.
But we live in the real world. We don't live in the world, whichis based on papers. We had papers for 28 years, the most valuablein the world, resolutions of the UN Security Council. So what? Whocared about that? Even those who adopted those resolutionsdemanding Armenia to withdraw its troops, themselves did not doanything to implement them. What should we have done with theseresolutions? Cover ourselves with these resolutions? No, we tookrifles and went to die. That's what we did. Is it my recommendationfor everybody? No. I'm speaking for myself, as a President andCommander-in-Chief, and on behalf of 10 million Azerbaijanis whofeel the same and share the same during the times of occupation,war, and the post-war situation. We have been celebrating on oursoil for four years now. This is the bitter truth of real politicsand must be taken into account. Solidarity? Okay. Does it work? No.Words? No. Nothing. We felt it on our skin for 28 years. So, whatcan I say? Every leader of a country or community has their own wayof tackling this issue. Some leaders prefer to have negotiationsforever. I also wanted to, but then I said enough is enough. Myrecommendation is not to copy what we have done. I just want toshare with you. You asked what I feel, and I told you how I see thesituation. I don't want to say something that I don't believe in,like unity and solidarity – an iron fist only.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Liliana Śmiech, DirectorGeneral for International Affairs, Chairwoman of the FoundationCouncil, Ludovika University of Public Services, Warsaw Institute,Hungary.
Liliana Śmiech: Your Excellency, Mr. President,it is a huge honor for me. My question is very short. Do you seeAzerbaijan as most important bridge between eastern and westernworld taking into account the connectivity strategy that is beingimplemented?
President Ilham Aliyev: Well, the mostimportant bridge could be very arrogant, I think. But yes, it'skind of cultural, I would say, bridge because our location,definitely, geography influences the lifestyle, the society, andthe mood of the society. We feel ourselves comfortable when we arein Europe and when we are in the eastern part of the world. We donot feel discomfort because the Azerbaijani society has absorbed toa large degree the values of both Islamic and Europeancivilizations for centuries. So, definitely, this location dictatesus to be proactive on transportation, because if we didn't use thislocation, no one would forgive us. We started to invest and built,and as I said, it was not enough only to build railroads or ports.We need to build bridges between countries. And I have said manytimes, every country that wants to be a transit country - and nowwe see that the number of those who want to be transit countriesgrowing - must first build bridges between the countries. Becauseif you don't have good relations with your immediate neighbor andthe neighbor of your neighbor, you will never be a transit country.They will bypass you; they will avoid you. So, we have strongrelations with countries on the eastern shore of the Caspian Sea,Central Asia, on one hand, Georgia, Türkiye, and many Europeancountries on other hand. Russia and Iran to the north and south.This is the reason why we talk about connectivity at this juncture,north-south, east-west. If we had problems with only one of theseneighbors, it would not work. And it would make our life better. Ofcourse not.
As I said, we must protect ourselves from external potentialrisks, and that will be a guarantee for our success. Becauseinternally, as I said, we don't have any points of concern. Now,the geopolitical situation after the Russian-Ukrainian war haschanged so that our geography is needed more than ever before. Wewere talking about the North-South Transport Route. This projecthas been under discussion for more than 20 years. As I said, wehave a railroad in Azerbaijan that can transport 6-7-million tons.Now, it is needed for our neighbors to have 15-30 millionpotentially through this route. The same Russian-Ukrainian war ledto transit problems through Belarus and Poland, making the MiddleCorridor more in demand than ever before. The situation willchange. Of course, it will. Nothing is eternal. But with ourconnectivity projects, we should not try to take advantage of thissituational change. We must create a platform with tariffs, adigital transportation system, and predictable cooperation so thatthis route is used even after all the sanctions and blocks arelifted. So, that's what we're trying to do.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Krševan Antun, SeniorAssociate, Institute for Development and International Relations,Croatia.
Krševan Antun: Your Excellency, Mr. President,thank you so much. It's an honor to be here. While you werespeaking, I was recalling the history that we have in Croatia. Wehave so much in common. 20% of our territory occupied, hundreds ofthousands of refugees. So, I want to congratulate you and for apersonal courage and the people of Azerbaijan for liberating yourcountry. I've been coming here for more than 10 years. I canwitness your new energy. And I believe that now is the right timefor you actually, to boom as a country. And I wish you all thesuccess. So, just a short question concerning the energy projectsand extension of TANAP and TAP projects. So, do you have, orAzerbaijan, do you have a plan the connection to TAP pipelineconsidering Ionian Adriatic pipeline so that we could haveAzerbaijani gas in Croatia? Thank you.
President Ilham Aliyev: First of all, thank youfor your kind words about our country. I appreciate it.
With respect to the Ionian Adriatic pipeline, there are twoserious problems ahead of it. First, this project is not includedin the European Union's Projects of Common Interest, and that's whyit lacks support. Second, the volume of natural gas, which can beconsumed by three countries of that project is very low in order tobuild such an infrastructure project in a very difficult terrain.Because, as you know better than me, there are mountains, etc. So,that's a reason why it has not materialized so far. Is there analternative? Yes, there is an alternative, and we are working onthat. Of course, if anybody builds the Ionian Adriatic Pipeline, wewill definitely start supplying. Because we have additional gasresources. But if not, access to Croatia and from Croatia to yourneighbors in Bosnia Herzegovina and Montenegro can be achievedthrough Hungary. Because we already started gas supply to Hungary,I think, several months ago. This is actually the way to accessyour market. As far as I know, representatives of the governmentsof Croatia and Azerbaijan are already in the phase of consultationsabout that. So, I think that this is a more realistic way because,as I already mentioned, we are physically present in Hungary.Additionally, through Bulgaria, we have already entered the marketof Serbia, which can also serve as a route to neighboringcountries. So, I think we need to explore those options that can berealized sooner and with lower costs.
Hikmet Hajiyev: John Roberts, Energy SecuritySpecialist, Methinks, United Kingdom.
John Roberts: Mr. President, thank you verymuch for having us here today. And your efforts on the peaceprocess must be extraordinarily difficult to know just how you andthe Armenians are going to reach a settlement. So therefore, it'svery encouraging to hear that you think that you're going to manageto do that relatively soon. So, thank you for that. Question I wantto ask is actually about COP and the energy transition. It's asimple one. What do you think the relative importance is betweenrenewables on the one hand, and fossil fuels, particularly, naturalgas in the pursuit of Azerbaijan's own energy transition?
President Ilham Aliyev: I think I have alreadytouched upon the issue of finding the proper balance between fossilfuels and renewables. Azerbaijan, I think, is a good example ofthat with huge deposits of natural gas, which will be enough for atleast 100 years to supply ourselves and the markets. We have alsoattracted investments in renewables. It was a big gift for us tohave sun and wind, despite occasional complaints from theinhabitants of Baku about the wind, which blows there almost 300days a year. But now, it will not only bring fresh air from theCaspian Sea but also provide clean energy. I think that in severalyears, we will demonstrate what I am saying on the ground. BecauseI have already mentioned the projects that are in the pipeline andmore to come, we will be among the leading countries intransitioning from fossil fuels to green energy. We plan to supplyour electricity demand with renewables and to mainly export naturalto those who need it. Thank you.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Rachael M. Rudolph, AssistantProfessor of Social Science, Researcher, Beijing Institute ofTechnology, Zhuhai Campus, United States.
Rachael M. Rudolph: Hi, Mr. President. I'm gladto be here again for a second time. I want to ask a very specificquestion. Building on what Professor Qiang had mentioned withrespect to Azerbaijan-China relations, I'm interested in morespecifically electronic vehicle development in Azerbaijan. And Iknow that there was a conversation that was just discussed lastmonth. So, when talking about the development of Azerbaijan'sindigenous EV market, what role do you see China playing in thatspecifically? Thank you.
President Ilham Aliyev: We consider China asour main partner in this process. We held very productivenegotiations with several Chinese companies. I think the decisionhas already been made in favor of BYD, which will soon startmanufacturing electrical buses, and not only them. The contract haseither been signed or is soon to be signed in order to purchase asubstantial number of electric buses from BYD, marking the firststep in our cooperation. As far as I remember, there is also aguaranteed number of electric buses, which our state will purchasefrom manufacturing in Azerbaijan. So, our plans with respect toelectric vehicles were not only to buy them but also to createmanufacturing here, because we already have several factories thatassemble vehicles from different producers. We will probably needhundreds of busses. Taking into account that BYD is also veryfamous for different types of electric vehicles, I think, for themarket, it will also be a big advantage. So, it's already a donedeal. I'm not sure about the formalities, but decision has beenmade. So, we're looking forward to receiving the first busesprobably before COP. It will be another good demonstration aboutour agenda to the international community.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Wojciech Górecki, SeniorFellow, Centre for Eastern Studies (OSW), Poland.
Wojciech Górecki: Thank you, Mr. President.Thank you. I have one question on the perspective of reopening ofland borders of Azerbaijan, which is of great importance in termsof tourism, in terms of existing Azerbaijani community in Georgia.I mean, especially land border with Georgia. Thank you.
President Ilham Aliyev: We were talking aboutsecurity, regional development risks, etc. We see around usdifferent areas of instability. The decision to keep the landborder closed was made because of COVID. We are still formally inthe quarantine phase, but at the same time, let's be frank, thedecision to keep the borders closed is not only based on that. Wenow see, after our borders are already closed, the strengthenedsecurity in Azerbaijan. In previous times, there have been manycases. Some of them were public, some were not made public, wherewe faced serious threats and problems coming from outside. When Isay that all our potential risks can come from outside, I meanexactly that. You will understand if we don't go too much into thedetails. But as President, as a person who deals with nationalsecurity issues on a daily basis, I can say that we've seentremendous benefits for our national security after we closed ourborders. And this is a reality. Yes, people have to take that intoaccount. We understand that there are inconveniences for people inAzerbaijan and also for Azerbaijanis and another nationalities wholive in our neighborhoods. But national security should prevailover all other feelings, all other reasons, especially at a timewhen we have a war on our northern border and a crisis on oursouthern border. We have new areas of conflict emerging likemushrooms after the rain. I think that the people of Azerbaijanunderstand it.
With respect to tourism, I can say that the number of touristsis growing year after year. Probably this year, we will reach thepre-COVID number of foreign guests who enter Azerbaijan. The firstthree months of this year demonstrate a 24% growth of foreignerswho come here. So, if this trend continues by the end of the year,we'll have more than 3 million foreigners who come to Azerbaijan,which is more than before COVID. So, for tourism, actually, itdoesn't make any difference. Yes, it is inconvenient for somepeople in Azerbaijan who would like to go by car to theneighborhood. We understand it. It is inconvenient for Azerbaijaniswho live on the other side of the border in Dagestan, Georgia, andIran. We are surrounded by Azerbaijanis, as you know, on all ourborders. But we have to be responsible. So, the situation to openthe land border hasn't come yet.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Rick Fawn, Professor,University of St Andrews, United Kingdom.
Rick Fawn: Thank you very much, Mr. President.In this invaluable marathon session, we have perhaps not mentioneddemining in Karabakh. One of the very, very hopeful things of thesesessions is for all of us to see the horrible tragedy that remains.I'm wondering if you might briefly update us. And how that stillimpacting on the massive infrastructural developments that we getto see also in the important visits to Karabakh, and also what theinternational community could do to assist Azerbaijan? I knowcoming from the UK that there has been assistance, but it reallyshouldn't be an issue that is left simply to Azerbaijan. Thank youvery much.
President Ilham Aliyev: Thank you. We're verygrateful to the UK and other partners who provide assistance to usin this most important issue of post-conflict reconstruction.Unfortunately, the war against Azerbaijan continues. When I wasanswering the question about the Russian-Ukrainian war, I said thata ceasefire or even an end of war is not the end. So, we lost morethan 350 people most of whom are civilians who were severelyinjured. Unfortunately, this number will grow because the map ofmines, which Armenia refuses to provide, claiming they didn't haveit, and then finally agreed to give us, was inaccurate. Theaccuracy depended on different formulas and made up 25%. So,demining is the biggest impediment for reconstruction. We cannotmove forward not only people but also equipment and build roadswithout demining. Our resources are limited, although we haveincreased the number of personnel in our state demining agency. Atthe same time, we have created several military units of deminersin our defense ministry. But still, it is not enough. This could beone of the issues where the European Union can help us. We haveraised this issue and even suggested that if you don't want to givethe money, you could give the money to a company that will come anddemine, if you wish to help. Actually, that could be fair becausethey have already announced a huge package for Armenia. It wasannounced as 2.6 billion US dollars, although Armenian territorywas not subject to occupation and devastation. But when it comes toAzerbaijan, unfortunately, we see a different approach. So, wewould be grateful to any country, company, NGOs, or donororganizations that could help us. We need more trained personnel.We need more people. Of course, if financial support is provided,we will be very grateful. If not, we'll continue this way. Everyyear, we allocate about 60-70 million US dollars from our budget toour demining agency. It is not enough, and we do not increase itnot because we don't have the money, but because we lack the meansand trained personnel. Because you cannot send a person from thestreet to this dangerous job. They must be well-prepared. So, thankyou for raising this issue.
Hikmet Hajiyev: Kamran Bokhari, Director,Eurasian Security & Prosperity, Newlines Institute for Strategy &Policy, United States.
Kamran Bokhari: Thank you very much, Mr.President, Your Excellency. It's an honor to be here. I reallyenjoyed your candidness and the insights that you so generouslyshared with everybody, I really mean it. And congratulations oneverything that your country has achieved from liberation of yourterritory all the way to COP209, and best wishes for the future.You have touched upon the question that I wanted to ask. But I willask it a bit differently. So, we've been talking about risk, andwe've been talking about connectivity. And you mentioned theNorth-South corridor, we've talked about the Middle Corridor. Thereare great changes taking place to the north of this country, and ofcourse, to the south. There is the conflict that you have explainedthat you don't expect it between Iran and its adversaries to getout of hand, but Iran is also going through change internally.Likewise, you mentioned that you don't know when, and none of uscan foretell when the war in Ukraine will end. But the longer itgoes on the implications become more and more grave. How do you seethis strategic environment affecting your country's ability tonavigate towards the future and to achieve the goals that you'veset for yourself? Thank you.
President Ilham Aliyev: Well, actually, I thinkthe best way to navigate in this difficult environment, evenwithout this war situation in the region, is as it is. I think themain remedy and the main recipe could be to be fair andstraightforward. We have managed to establish good relations, andsometimes excellent relations, with our neighbors. I think this ismainly because of that and because they can trust us. They knowthat there will be no surprises from us. With respect to Ukraine,our support for Ukraine's territorial integrity has beenarticulated many times. This opposition is something we do nothide, regardless of the audience. At the same time, our friendlyand strategic partnership relations with Russia have not sufferedand should not suffer because of this war. This is the position ofour government, which is based on our national interest.
I am responsible for Azerbaijan’s security, safety, development,and stability. Whatever is necessary for that, I'm doing based onprinciple, so we never did something, which we did not considerright, legitimate, or perfect from the point of view ofinternational law. Because if you yourself violate the rules, whichyou want others not to violate, then it's just the beginning of theroad to the desert without water. The same goes for otherneighbors. Our good relations with Israel have already beenmentioned. Yes, we consider each other friends. That should not bea factor that interferes in our relations, say, with Iran or withPalestine. Our position is absolutely straightforward and, again,based on international law. We fully support the aspirations of thePalestinian people to have their state. We have been co-sponsors inmany cases in different institutions, including the Organization ofIslamic Cooperation. So, one should not exclude the other. You mustbe fair, base your steps and statements on international law, anddo everything in the national interest and nothing against it.There have been cases in the region where foreign actors weremoving the pieces on the country’s chessboard, and what results didit bring? Tragedy. Foreign actors have their own nationalinterests, and they do not necessarily coincide with yours. If theydo coincide, good. If they don't, we say no. We have never joinedany adventure that could create a potential threat to Azerbaijan,and have always been fair in our relations with Iran, Russia,Georgia, Europe, and our brothers in Türkiye. This is the reasonwhy we achieve success. So, nobody expects us to do something thatwe do not want to do. This is already an established format ofcooperation.
What important is that we never do anything against anyonewithout any motivation. Yes, now we face unjustified attacks onAzerbaijan from some countries, and we do respond. These countrieshave actually launched a Cold War against Azerbaijan. We said okay,we accept this, and we do the same, and we do exactly the samewithout crossing the red lines. We do not burn the last bridge. Butwe will respond, but we will never start first. And the same waswith Armenia. We did not attack them. We did not occupy them. Wedid not expel them. It was them who did it. They received theresponse. Yes, in 22 years, but anyway. So, if I continue to sharemy ideas on that with you, we will probably need another fourhours. So probably, I’d better stop, and I think what I have saidis already enough. Thank you very much for your patience. All thebest and have a safe trip to Lachin.
